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Kramerman
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UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:29
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Im more talented than a lot of people, at a lot of things. A lot of people are more talented than me at a lot of things. I work harder than most people. A lot of people work harder than me.
Here is the equation of our society, and i like it
(Work)*(Talent) + luck = Money
If you have a lot of talent in something, but put in zero work into benefiting from it, you get zero dollars (unless your really lucky and something falls in your lap). If you dont have a lot of talent, but work really, really hard at it, then you should make a lot of money, and vice versa if you have a lot of talent but dont work too hard. Some of the most successful people in our society not only have a lot of talent, but have worked very hard with it and had a lot of luck (being at the right place at the right time, etc).
Every person with determination can make it to a comfortable life in our society, im living proof of that ( i dont wanna get into my life story...). And its my belief, tho some over all are more talented than others, evryone has some natural ability in something (except heavily retarded people or other disadvanteged people, who we DO(!) help thru social institutions) and can be quite successful if they work at it. And some people can be very successful at things they have no natrual talent, in, by sheer hard work.
Gotta do lundry, more on this later
Kman
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The Templar
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People's Republic of the East Village
Oct 2001
time: 00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kramerman
Every person with determination can make it to a comfortable life in our society, im living proof of that ( i dont wanna get into my life story...). And its my belief, tho some over all are more talented than others, evryone has some natural ability in something (except heavily retarded people or other disadvanteged people, who we DO(!) help thru social institutions) and can be quite successful if they work at it. And some people can be very successful at things they have no natrual talent, in, by sheer hard work.
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I knew plenty of people in Austin at the height of the tech boom who had two (sometimes even three) jobs and were struggling to keep the lights on and eat enough. They were working plenty hard, but had squat. Why? Because squat is what managers were offering for thinly skilled labor. Hard work doesn't mean **** in the contemporary US.
Hell, even talent and hard work isn't even a sure thing anymore. I know plenty of people, who back during the tech boom in Austin, had fairly lucrative tech jobs. They worked hard and knew their stuff. Now they're delivering pizzas or working at Borders (if they are lucky). Not only is this a waste of these people's skills, it means they don't have money to buy things - thereby further stagnating the economy. Moreover, it tells students not to study things like engineering or science and instead do something less helpful - like business school. Because was always need more middle-managers, right?
As soon as "our system", or neoliberalism, or capitalism, or whatever you want to call it can assure that people with technical skills are using those skills to innovate as opposed to delivering pizzas (and making people even more obese) give me a call. Until then, wake the **** up.
Last edited by The Templar on 21-07-2003 at 08:23
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The Templar
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People's Republic of the East Village
Oct 2001
time: 00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Templar....but that's just the point. They CAN'T make efficient use of their skills because "the people" don't need that many tech-heads. That's why there's not enough tech-head jobs out there, which in turn is why those talented people are delivering pizza (which is, apparently, a skill that WAS needed....moreso than the fifty thousandth tech-head). |
Yes, yes. The market sent a signal that tech people were needed via good salaries. Based on these signals, people invested time and money in gaining skills. Skills like chemical engineering, electrical/computer engineering, mathematics, comp sci, and physics. But these are human beings - you can't expect them to stop on a dime, do a one-eighty, and do something new.
Perhaps resourses should be diverted from CEO and executive salaries and directed towards scientific, artistic, and humanistic endeavors? I think we can always use improved medicine, better computers, more art, a space program, or even obesity-proof pizza for hopeful muscians to deliver.
But I guess that would require a social zeitgeist that emphasized practical achievement and mastery of skills over people making money.
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You can't MAKE people need something. |
 Isn't that what advertising is about?
But seriously, couldn't former engineers be doing more to advance humanity if funded than selling crap like at Borders?
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Do you want to prop up demand for tech-head artificially just so these folks have something to do? |
There is tons of research to be done and discoveries to be made. Capitalism just doesn't foster the right motivations to emphasize doing this.
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I mean, I have a great job right now, but if I lost it tomorrow, I'd go where the work was, both in terms of physical location and skill set. Wouldn't bother me a bit. Why should it?
-=Vel=- |
Hopefully, I will never have to live in the South again (I'll make an exception for New Orleans - but there aren't many jobs there). See, that's the problem. Too many people willing to move to get the work. This prevents the formation of stable communities and instead creates endless sprawls of suburbs were nomadic professionals never really know their neighbors.
I would prefer a system that allows me to help build and grow within a community. A system that both allows and encourages me to pursue and hone an area of expertise, live comfortably, and not have to worry about making a buck or managing a retirement fund. These distract from my work - they waste my time. Moreover, they rob the community of my work by wasting my time.
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Kramerman
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UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:29
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quote:
As soon as "our system", or neoliberalism, or capitalism, or whatever you want to call it can assure that people with technical skills are using those skills to innovate as opposed to delivering pizzas (and making people even more obese) give me a call. Until then, wake the **** up. |
The reason why some techies werent being used to their full advantage wa because THE JOBS WERE FILLED! THOUSANDS already had their jobs, and thru the incentive system of capitalism, innnovation is constantly being made in business and industry. Tough luck to thse people, but businesses can only afford to expand and hire so many people, so fast. If we were in a communism, their talents would truly be going to waste
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Kramerman
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UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:29
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quote:
Hopefully, I will never have to live in the South again (I'll make an exception for New Orleans - but there aren't many jobs there). See, that's the problem. Too many people willing to move to get the work. This prevents the formation of stable communities and instead creates endless sprawls of suburbs were nomadic professionals never really know their neighbors. |
uh huh... these are gross generalizations. A LOT of people enjoy life long relations with a company and neighborhood. My late great uncle, for example, was an orphan who gre up and eventually bought a place on main street where he opened a barber shop. He was there for 42 years, until he died. He lived in the same house (a few blocks away, he walked to work every morning) where he raised a family and died in.
Im not saying everyone is like this, but no more people just move about than people who dont. And even if peope do move a lot, it doesnt mean the communities they come to are disfunctional in anyway. I and a lot of other college stidents just moved to new dorms. We knew no one when we got here, but within weeks the area has become a close-knit community. granted its not as close knit than it would be if it ad been there or decades, but for most people, that is not a priority! making a living so my family can live with a good standard of living is my priority. going into the military, obviously ill be moving around a lot. I grew up briefly in a military family, and we moved a lot. I'm fine without this elusive' 'sense' of community.
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I would prefer a system that allows me to help build and grow within a community. A system that both allows and encourages me to pursue and hone an area of expertise, live comfortably, and not have to worry about making a buck or managing a retirement fund. These distract from my work - they waste my time. Moreover, they rob the community of my work by wasting my time. |
hmm... Templar... if you did not have to worry about making that buck, my friend, you WOULD NOT WORK NEARLY AS HARD! its that necessity of making a buck that drives people to work HARD. its called incentive, without it, you, me, Vel, Kid, and most everyone except fantically passionate people for the state would slack off as much as possible. this would make the system terriblly inefficient, thus you have the crap states of vietnam, NK, cuba, and the collapse of the soviet union. Even china, with an ever increasing bastard system of communism is not nearly anywhere as efficient as your Germany ( very socialist, granted), Japan, USA, etc
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Kramerman
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UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:29
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I saw a very interesting program on how the Soviet Union stole the B-29 super fortress design so they could make a long range strategic bomber, which they lacked. Basically, Stalin got this guy and was like, "you got 2 years to copy this...". The designer knew exactly what the consequences would be. He did it, but it was very hard because the B-29 was so advanced and sophisticated. He completed the soviet version of the B-29, but many people on his team couldnt take the pressure, and comitted suicide
I dont recall anybody in the USA that commited suicide while developing the original B-29, which did take them longer than 2 years, yeah, but again they were building it from scrap and not copying it.
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21-07-2003 07:46
All sides of my family were poor immigrants to America at some point. Within one generation all sides of my family had themselves established. 
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