16-07-2003 05:31									#1
	Help, what am I missing? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Playing PTW 1.21f on Monarch, I've got a size 20 Washington, with Temple, Marketplace, Cathedral, Colosseum, Sistine and all eight luxuries in the box. I'm not at war with anybody, but my last war ended just last turn. The problem is that I still have four unhappy citizens and one content in the city. Shouldn't the eight lux's and Marketplace give me 20 happy faces? Is there some kind of residual war weariness at work? I thought once the war ended, the weariness went away with it. Is it due to the difficulty level, this being my first real Monarch game? Even if that's it, I haven't seen this on Regent, and the two levels both have two citizens born content.

I can "fix" this, I know, with the luxury slider, but am trying to reconcile what I thought should happen with what is actually happening. TIA

	16-07-2003 05:50									#2
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Warweariness does not go away immediately... straightline reduction over 20 turns, I believe (and there may be some other factors, such as unhappiness jumping from abandoned cities).

	16-07-2003 06:04									#3
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Select the citizens and they will tell you why they are unhappy. Most likely a large % will be WW.

	16-07-2003 06:09									#4
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quote: Select the citizens and they will tell you why they are unhappy. Most likely a large % will be WW.

That's what's puzzling: they all say it's just too crowded.

Theseus, is it actual or potential WW that declines over 20 years? Potential as in the WW that would immediately appear if you went back to war with that same enemy this turn. I have abandoned a couple of far away towns extorted in peace settlements (one on my home continent), but didn't realize that contributed to unhapiness. Thanks for the input.

	16-07-2003 07:41									#5
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http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=53114


Check this out. It is about WW.

	16-07-2003 07:45									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Solomwi That's what's puzzling: they all say it's just too crowded. Theseus, is it actual or potential WW that declines over 20 years? Potential as in the WW that would immediately appear if you went back to war with that same enemy this turn. I have abandoned a couple of far away towns extorted in peace settlements (one on my home continent), but didn't realize that contributed to unhapiness. Thanks for the input.

That is strange. Abandoning cities can cause unhappiness but I doubt that is the cause. Also I believe it is potential WW that decreases over time. Typically when my wars end I go into rapid wave of WLTK days. Try putiing your lux slider at 20% (this is my standard rate for democracy, 10% for Republic) and see if that helps. Of course you could hire soime entertainers instead.

	16-07-2003 07:54									#7
	Re: Help, what am I missing? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Playing PTW 1.21f on Monarch, I've got a size 20 Washington, with Temple, Marketplace, Cathedral, Colosseum, Sistine and all eight luxuries in the box. I'm not at war with anybody, but my last war ended just last turn. The problem is that I still have four unhappy citizens and one content in the city. Shouldn't the eight lux's and Marketplace give me 20 happy faces? Is there some kind of residual war weariness at work? I thought once the war ended, the weariness went away with it. Is it due to the difficulty level, this being my first real Monarch game? Even if that's it, I haven't seen this on Regent, and the two levels both have two citizens born content. I can "fix" this, I know, with the luxury slider, but am trying to reconcile what I thought should happen with what is actually happening. TIA

Your confusion is probably a result of a misunderstanding about how luxuries affect the citizenry. Luxuries first apply to content citizens and then to unhappy citizens -- if all content have been made happy, then an unhappy is made content (it doesn't jump all the way to happy), that newly content is made happy, and then (and only then) does another unhappy enjoy the luxury effects.

Okay - let's run the numbers and see if we can track this down for you.

Monarch - 2 citizens born content
Temple - 1 citizen content
Colosseum - 2 citizens content
Cathedral - 3 citzens content
Sistine - 3 citizens content

So, without taking into account the luxuries, Washington at size 20 should be 11 content and 9 unhappy.

8 luxuries with a marketplace adds 20 happy faces. As mentioned above, happy faces first move content citizens to happy, and then move unhappy to content, content to happy, and then back to the next unhappy. So, the lux-marketplace combo first moves the 11 content citizens to happy -- Washington now has 11 happy and 9 unhappy citizens, with 9 "unused happy faces" from the remaining luxury effects.

Each of the remaining 9 unhappy citizens will need 2 happy faces to move from unhappy to happy -- the precise order is: 1 happy face moves an unhappy to content; now that there is a content, the next happy face moves the content to happy. So, four of the remaining unhappies get happy at a cost of 8 happy faces from the lux-market combo, with one leftover happy face - Washington now has 15 happy, 5 unhappy, one "unused happy face." The unused happy face makes one unhappy citizen content, leaving Washington with 15 happy, 1 content, and 4 unhappy citizens.

Two additional thoughts:

First, although I believe that war weariness declines over 20 or so turns, I believe the visible effects of war weariness (unhappiness) go away immediately upon peace; the effects will come back in a hurry if war is redeclared because the war weariness hasn't dissipated, the effects have just been hidden.

Second, the above description of how luxuries work can be very frustrating -- i.e., one would generally prefer to have luxuries apply to unhappy citizens first (enabling WLTKD) rather than applying to content citizens -- but I think it serves a useful purpose of making WLTKD a bit more of a challenge in larger cities. If the application were adjusted, I think it would be far too easy to essentially have your empire in permanent WLTKD.

Catt

	16-07-2003 08:16									#8
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I am SO happy that Catt is around... I give the short answer, and Catt does the deluxe Encyclopedia Britannica version.

Theseus

	16-07-2003 09:37									#9
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Wow, thanks, Catt! That's exactly what it is, a misunderstanding on my part. Great explanation.

quote: First, although I believe that war weariness declines over 20 or so turns, I believe the visible effects of war weariness (unhappiness) go away immediately upon peace; the effects will come back in a hurry if war is redeclared because the war weariness hasn't dissipated, the effects have just been hidden.

Okay, that's pretty much what I was thinking, just calling WW "potential WW" and the effects "actual WW".

And the more I think about it, the more I agree with your WLTKD premise. Like my previous attachment to Warlord (on which I did have my whole empire in WLTKD), it makes a pretty sight of a powerhouse empire, but doesn't present much of a challenge.

Off-topic, but Theseus, check the strat forum... I think you might get a particular kick out of the screenshot I just put in the Use and Utility of Marines thread .