16-07-2003 08:10									#1
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I watched a show on court TV the other night about high speed chases.

They had points for both keeping and abolishing them, but the thing that hit me the worst is the SCOTUS upheld a lower court ruling that police were not accountable for deaths that are incurred during the chase, even of innocent citizens.

Hell, Doctors and Nurses are accountable, why not police officers?

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	16-07-2003 08:11									#2
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because the police didn't actually kill them possibly?

	16-07-2003 08:13									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident because the police didn't actually kill them possibly?

But, chasing somebody that runs because of a taillight is a little ridiculous, don't you think?

Especially when it leads to the deaths of innocents.

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	16-07-2003 08:15									#4
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Tougher sentences need to be required for people who run from the police. I don't care what people think, this is the only solution.

But to the subject, yes police shouldn't be accountable. The situation is far more dangerous than that of in a hospital, in my opinion. If the police receive proper training they will know when disaster could occur.

	16-07-2003 08:17									#5
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what if the Oklahoma City bomber ran from the police?

Remember, they only got him because he had a taillight out. If he ran, and the police couldn't chase him, there is the possibility no one would have found him. He would still be at large today.

	16-07-2003 08:18									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Tougher sentences need to be required for people who run from the police. I don't care what people think, this is the only solution. But to the subject, yes police shouldn't be accountable. The situation is far more dangerous than that of in a hospital, in my opinion. If the police receive proper training they will know when disaster could occur.

You are right, however, there IS no requirement for proper training in most cities.

Police should be held at least partially responsible for their actions.

Besides, it is the action of the police officer that gives chase as much as the the criminal that creates this dangerous situation.

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	16-07-2003 08:19									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski You are right, however, there IS no requirement for proper training in most cities. Police should be held at least partially responsible for their actions.

If they receive proper training for chases than there shouldn't be any punishment.

quote: Besides, it is the action of the police officer that gives chase as much as the the criminal that creates this dangerous situation. ACK!

No.. actually the police officer is trying to stop the chase before anybody can get killed.

	16-07-2003 08:19									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident what if the Oklahoma City bomber ran from the police? Remember, they only got him because he had a taillight out. If he ran, and the police couldn't chase him, there is the possibility no one would have found him. He would still be at large today.

What if they had been vigilant and seen the tailight BEFORE he set the bomb?

The Murrah building would still be there.

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	16-07-2003 08:21									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Fez If they receive proper training for chases than there shouldn't be any punishment. No.. actually the police officer is trying to stop the chase before anybody can get killed.

Oh, if he never starts the chase and simply, RECORDS THE LICENSE NUMBER , he can get him a lot easier and safer, can't he?

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	16-07-2003 08:23									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Oh, if he never starts the chase and simply, RECORDS THE LICENSE NUMBER , he can get him a lot easier and safer, can't he? ACK!

Wrong. The person who decided to run should be persued and arrested. And the person can run, ditch the car and never be found. What happens if it is a stolen vehicle?

	16-07-2003 08:25									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Wrong. The person who decided to run should be persued and arrested. And the person can run, ditch the car and never be found. What happens if it is a stolen vehicle?

So, you are saying that, the cop can hit and kill 15 innocent people, but as long as he busts the guy with the suspended license, he shouldn't be held responsible for the deaths of the other 15 people?



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	16-07-2003 08:25									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Oh, if he never starts the chase and simply, RECORDS THE LICENSE NUMBER , he can get him a lot easier and safer, can't he? ACK!

The police are in a No win situation. Should there be High speed chases No.......but........Lets say the police break off pursuit & the individual ends up killing a bunch of people... The same people that would be upset at the High speed chase resulting in innocent deaths would still be infuriated that the police didnt pursue the Individual.......

	16-07-2003 08:26									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski But, chasing somebody that runs because of a taillight is a little ridiculous, don't you think? Especially when it leads to the deaths of innocents. ACK!

All the police officers I know say that there are times when chases are called off because a decision is made that it is not worth the risk. You use a ridiculous example of chasing someone because of a broken taillight, how about an example involving multiple murder or kidnapping?

	16-07-2003 08:26									#14
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usually the bad guy kills the people, not the cop. The cop is is behind the guy fleeing from the police after all.

	16-07-2003 08:30									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber All the police officers I know say that there are times when chases are called off because a decision is made that it is not worth the risk. You use a ridiculous example of chasing someone because of a broken taillight, how about an example involving multiple murder or kidnapping?

Hate to break it to you, but do you know the number one reason people run from the law is?

No insurance.

So obviously we need to chase all people just in case they happen to be a murderer.

Most police officers don't know why they are chasing somebody until they catch them.

Murderer? kidnapper? Sure if they know that to be the case, cahse them. But most of the time they don't know that.

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	16-07-2003 08:30									#16
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To answer the question in the title. High speed chases are not good. It's not a matter of them being good or not. It's a matter of sometimes they are necessary.

Should the cops be held responsibile? To a certain extent, yes they should. Their actions should be held up to review but they don't need to be afraid to do their job. If that happens, then those that break the law will be more emboldened than they already are.

	16-07-2003 08:30									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski So, you are saying that, the cop can hit and kill 15 innocent people, but as long as he busts the guy with the suspended license, he shouldn't be held responsible for the deaths of the other 15 people? ACK!

That would not occur if he receives proper training. And knows his limits.

	16-07-2003 08:33									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Fez That would not occur if he receives proper training. And knows his limits.

They don't receive proper training.

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	16-07-2003 08:34									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski They don't receive proper training. ACK!

Then they should.

For now, I support police chases if they are necessary. Not doing anything would do nothing but encourage other people to run from a traffic stop.

	16-07-2003 08:34									#20
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Do any of you remember a high speed chase involving a guy on a motorcycle a few months go ?( I think in Michigan?) The motorcyclist died from a crash . The town rioted for a few days.........There was speculation that the Police Bumped him while both were in excess of 100mph.

	16-07-2003 08:35									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Hate to break it to you, but do you know the number one reason people run from the law is? No insurance. So obviously we need to chase all people just in case they happen to be a murderer. Most police officers don't know why they are chasing somebody until they catch them. Murderer? kidnapper? Sure if they know that to be the case, cahse them. But most of the time they don't know that. ACK!

Tell me exactly how a cop is supposed to know exactly why someone is running? If you posses some all emcompassing way to know for sure then perhaps you need to be working with the police helping them out.

	16-07-2003 08:36									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber To answer the question in the title. High speed chases are not good. It's not a matter of them being good or not. It's a matter of sometimes they are necessary. Should the cops be held responsibile? To a certain extent, yes they should. Their actions should be held up to review but they don't need to be afraid to do their job. If that happens, then those that break the law will be more emboldened than they already are.

By the way, I'm undecided on the issue, let me give you another story from the show:

A police officer sees two people in car acting suspiciously, he pulls them over and they flee so he gives chase. But, because of new pursuit guidelines he stops the chase as he is required to do.

Hours later he finds out that the two men he was pursuing kidnapped, raped, and murdered a 15 year old little girl.

If he had a more aggresive pursuit policy, he may have caught them and the murder never would have happened.

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	16-07-2003 08:38									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Tell me exactly how a cop is supposed to know exactly why someone is running? If you posses some all emcompassing way to know for sure then perhaps you need to be working with the police helping them out.

That's the point I'M making, how do they know? Sometimes they know that a murderer, bank robber, rapist is fleeing, most of the time they don't.

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	16-07-2003 08:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by CorpusScorpius Do any of you remember a high speed chase involving a guy on a motorcycle a few months go ?( I think in Michigan?) The motorcyclist died from a crash . The town rioted for a few days.........There was speculation that the Police Bumped him while both were in excess of 100mph.

this was mainly due to the motorcyclist being black, and the cop being white. This is why they rioted. Apparantly this town has had a problem for a while of police harrassing black people.

	16-07-2003 08:42									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski By the way, I'm undecided on the issue, let me give you another story from the show: A police officer sees two people in car acting suspiciously, he pulls them over and they flee so he gives chase. But, because of new pursuit guidelines he stops the chase as he is required to do. Hours later he finds out that the two men he was pursuing kidnapped, raped, and murdered a 15 year old little girl. If he had a more aggresive pursuit policy, he may have caught them and the murder never would have happened. ACK!

On one of those cop shows the police chased a guy about ten miles because he was an attorney dressed in drag and didn't want to be seen in his panty hose. Like I said, a cop never knows when he is about to make a stop what is in store for him or her. I would still rather have that decisionr to stop or chase in the hands of officers on the scene instead of some policy maker that has never set foot out on patrol.

	16-07-2003 08:56									#26
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I haven't actually voiced my real opinion on this issure.

I am tempted to say that only violent offenders should be chased. But I think even non-violent offenders should be chased depending on the conditions. They should never be chased in residential neighborhoods with kids about. But if you're in an industrial area at night with no one around, might as well chase them.

I'm sure they can draw up some guidlines when and when not to chase non-violent offenders.

	16-07-2003 09:06									#27
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I don't like these chases but if we stop police from chasing people, more criminals will know all they have to do is start running. Of course, they usually start running anyways. I want the police to rely on other methods, like helicopters. Maybe they can figure out a way to attach a tracking device to the car they are following and just wait for the guy to stop and get out.
You know, like a harpoon of sorts that can be shot into the side of a car as it goes by...

	16-07-2003 09:09									#28
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That's a good idea.

Or maybe they can use some kind of magnetic device from the chopper to disable the vehicle.