16-07-2003 14:20									#1
	Pikes and the Great Wall Remove this text

In my current game my peaceful Mongols (Spotless Republic) are being beset by aggressive Americans, with the GW, who insist upon sneak attacking more or less every fourth turn. By way of war reparations each time they do this I relieve them of a city before accepting their pleas for peace once more.

Now - these cities are defended by Pikemen + GW and I am attacking with (mainly green) Crooks and should be losing them by the shedload - but I am not! It generally takes two Crooks per Pike, sometimes three - surely this does not agree with our received wisdom on Combat Resolution?

There is a rationale that suggests that the Pike's advantage against Horse (hiding behind very spikey fences) should not apply when they are stood on top of large stone walls - but I have never seen any suggestion that this should be the case in Civ.

Does a Pike lose its special defence when behind the GW?

Does a Pike lose its special defence when behind real City Walls?

Am I just a lucky b*stard as SG(2) says?

SG[1]

	16-07-2003 17:21									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Are you taking into account that when you're behind a wall, being fortified doesn't count into your defense?

	16-07-2003 18:33									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

hi,

I've got another question about pikemen, and can't find an answer in the many threads of the Grat Library.

What's the defense rate of a pikemen in MP vs. for example a catapult, if I play at double move rate?
Is it *2 against units that usually have 1 move, and 2 in MP?

	17-07-2003 06:15									#4
	Er...what's a crook? :o Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

If a Crook is a Crusader, then you're having a little good luck but not that great. On average, I think you can expect to lose 2.7 Crusaders per Pike.

Attachment: crusadervpike.png
This has been downloaded 198 time(s).

	17-07-2003 09:29									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Isn't it nice to see what a science it has become

	17-07-2003 09:53									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Isn't it nice to see what a science it has become

sire , before we send our men to death, let us calculate the exact odds of the battle and see if they are acceptable to you

well done...with a colorfull chart even i can figure it out

	17-07-2003 14:27									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

SG IMO you are just jammy.

	17-07-2003 16:14									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The 'science' comes in very handy when you're designing a unit mix for a new scenario. Didn't mean to spoil the fun for players.

	17-07-2003 17:44									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Is that utility program available? If so, where?

	17-07-2003 18:01									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I spy an addition to Rah rules coming up.

	17-07-2003 19:11									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I highly doubt it would be used much. Maybe in between games. I can calc the approx odds in my head quite quickly, but it would be nice to see the exact percentage for certain situations.

	17-07-2003 19:17									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, the shortcut provides a reasonably accurate approximation, and most people can do sums like (1*1.5)/2. Doing a bunch of binomial calculations in your head is a little trickier. Fortunately it isn't necessary from a practical gameplay point of view.

	17-07-2003 21:22									#13
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quote: Is that utility program available? If so, where?

It is buried in a 'poly thread or two. Question is, should it be made more available? It's in the hands of ST and a few scenario designers.

I rarely use it during a game. It's not so useful there. Like Rah says, instinct/experience/rough approximations provide a faster and sufficiently accurate answer. Plus when n=1, your result may vary just a little from average.

I posted the screendump to show the modifiers (in case I was wrong) as well as the predicted results.

	17-07-2003 21:29									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks all - the problem is now moot.

Washington (GW + MP) is now Mongolia's most Western outpost.

(It took 13 Crooks to subdue 2 Musks + 2 Archers behind GW + real City Walls - which remain standing)

SG[1]

	18-07-2003 13:39									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

This guy SG[1] kills so many crusaders (with bad odds) that I guess he is an infidel

	19-07-2003 16:34									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by rah Is that utility program available? If so, where?

Did you hear about GL, greenie?

quote: Originally posted by Boco Question is, should it be made more available? It's in the hands of ST and a few scenario designers.

What do you want to say, Boco?

I think the Boco's calculator is good because you can learn odds for some standard 'ratios':
for example warrior vs. warrior has chance about 39% to win etc.

	20-07-2003 01:28									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It doesn't look like it includes a surprise attack bonus

	20-07-2003 02:04									#18
	Put an end to popups!

You can multiply the attack factor by 2 manually (if you can ;-))

	21-07-2003 18:00									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm lazy, so I would love someone to post a link.

	21-07-2003 18:29									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm also lazy, but it took ludicrously little effort:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=22704

	22-07-2003 06:21									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Okay, I'll admit I was lazy too, but since there are two versions in the thread, I uploaded the more recent one to my upload directory.

Boco's Civ2 Combat Probability Calc

Unfortunately, the "Open Rules" button is bug-ridden. Fortunately, the file is currently loaded with the extended original ToT @Units set.

Credits go to... (with long dead links)

	22-07-2003 17:44									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Thanks guys.

	06-08-2003 02:14									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

wow... a program to help you use another program...

	06-08-2003 18:20									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yep, being an IT Director, I can really appreciate that.