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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-Democracy Game > Intersite DG: Apolyton Team > Power Analysis
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Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 17-07-2003 23:05 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Power Analysis Remove this text

Base power is assumed to be power (as reflected on the powergraph) with 1 city and 1 Warrior. For much of my testing I had two civs and compared their power. The change in power is taken from equilibrium where they both have equal power. The interesting thing about the powergraph is that it's always relative to other civs and not a fixed line. This makes pinpointing a change in power difficult (for example, our great rise is mainly due to the other civs losing power, instead of us gaining it).

Population affects score, but not power. Having 2 cities while your opponent only has one provides a 31% boost in base power. 3 cities gives a 41% base increase.

All units count the same in comparing power. Modern Armor = Warrior. Having 1 Warrior when your opponent doesn't provides a 15.9% increase to base power. Having 15 when your opponent has 10 provides a 13.6% increase.

Gold affects power, but not as much as cities or units. Having 100 gold while your opponent has 10 only provides a 7% increase in base power.

Resources are factored into power, but not much. Having horses when your opponent does not provides a 2.9% increase to base power. Having horses and iron when your opponent does not provides a 5.2% increase.

Techs only provide a tiny increase. Having Iron Working and Bronze Working while your opponent only has Bronze Working provides only a 1.3% increase.

From what I can tell, culture is not factored in at all despite what the chart itself says. Having a 1,000,000 culture city isn't even noticed by the graph (20,000 in one city or 100,000 total is a culture victory).

And now… for the charts.

The first chart is our power without factoring in units, techs and gold (so it's basically cities, culture and resources). The second one is the actual chart from the game.



So what this tells us is that basically we have more units than the rest of the continent. Profound, I know.

However, what is interesting is that city population and unit stats are not taken into consideration for the power calculations. At the moment, we are no doubt inferior to the rest of the continent in both regards: we have lots of small cities and tons of un-upgraded Warriors. These two factors inflate our power compared to what an "accurate" showing of our power at this moment would be. If city population and unit stats were factored instead of the straight number of cities and number of units, our power rating would be much lower.

So in all honesty, we're not as "strong" as we are being shown on the powergraph. Sure, we can quickly upgrade lots of Warriors, have improved our terrain in an excellent manner, have a strong city core, and possess huge GNP (relative to this continent) among other things, but you won't find those on a graph.

So in actuality the powergraph is showing a false strength in us, but an accurate portrayal of our true potential. How nice of the game to blow our cover.

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 18-07-2003 08:33 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Suffering from ads?

Upon further analysis it looks like unit strength and city size do make a difference. 15 Modern Armors instead of 15 Warriors makes a 10% difference, and a size 20 city has a 1% increase over a size 1.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:29
  Old Post 18-07-2003 09:55
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Increase Your PM Length

Go on - change your results then.

Interesting results... if only we could find a way to let CFC and GCA know a little of this without telling them the lot...

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 20-07-2003 22:21
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Does the number of workers and settlers have any effect on this??

E_T

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 20-07-2003 22:49 Visit Trip's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by E_T
Does the number of workers and settlers have any effect on this??

E_T

Nope, none whatsoever.

The biggest impact on power is the NUMBER of cities. Since we have a crapload more than any of the other teams our power is huge. Recently GCA's has risen a lot due to capturing CDG cities, and they just built one of their own last turn. CFC and CDG have not been building cities so their power generally stays the same, or drops when they lose units.

DarkCloud is offline DarkCloud
Civ3 Stories Editor
of Lists
Jul 2000
time: 05:29
  Old Post 22-07-2003 01:36 Visit DarkCloud<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
So in actuality the powergraph is showing a false strength in us, but an accurate portrayal of our true potential. How nice of the game to blow our cover

Well, at least they'll be afraid to attack us

Hagbart is offline Hagbart
Prince
Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:29
  Old Post 22-07-2003 01:43
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Why don't we upgrade some of those old warriors (or some of them)? Are we only doing that if it is needed (if we should be atacked?

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:29
  Old Post 22-07-2003 02:23
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Trip, what do you mean with a 10% increase in base power? do you mean by that that the graph shows then a 110 / 90 ratio? Or do you mean a graph with a 105/95 ratio? Or... have you computed back the ratio, and you mean a 110/90 ratio? All of these have different results...

Also, have your initial tests (the ones with different # of cities) included the 10 initial gold, and no warriors?

It should be possible to count back, and devise some sort of rough formula from your numbers

DeepO

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 22-07-2003 05:23 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

I mean 110/90. A % increase or decrease is considered from equilibrium for that team only.

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 22-07-2003 05:58 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Note: Our power decreased the turn we upgraded our 4 Warriors to Swords. This is due to the fact that 160 gold is much more heavily weighted than the difference between 4 Swords and 4 Warriors (remember how much of a difference 15 MAs makes over 15 Warriors?).

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:29
  Old Post 22-07-2003 06:41
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thanks... and did you test with similar initial conditions each time? (Meaning normal conditions being 1 city, no warrior, 10 gold, no resources, 2 starting techs)?

Tomorrow at work I'll see if I can come up with some kind of formula, it should be relatively easy to do if it can stay rough... but I hate to test these kind of things, and haven't even got the latest patch installed... it's been over 2 months since I last played a game.

DeepO

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 22-07-2003 06:45 Visit Trip's homepage!
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I had both teams start with 1 city, 10 gold, no techs and 1 Warrior. I had to use the Warrior because otherwise there was no way to make contact on turn 1 and the AI would do funky things which would change the power.

Don't take any of this as completely accurate. For example, my "10%" is just an estimation. It's probably a bit lower than that. To come up with a real formula would require a lot of research, though it looks like everything that affects it has been identified.

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