19-07-2003 05:22									#31
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Agreed, but we can do an investigation of Alcohol before we cross the border.

Do the upgrades this turn and head them towards Karina. I also want to send our lone 'Elite' Warrior, maybe do an attack on a wonded CDG unit, maybe a GL?

	19-07-2003 05:28									#32
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There is another possibility.

We move the troops to Karina and investigate both Elucidium and Alcohol. If Elucidium has a stack of immortals in it, we might enquire of CDG if they feel they can hold and whether they want our help. If they say they want our help, we advance and garrison their iron with 4 forted swords. That, with the power of Elucidium and the 3 small centers, might delay things for GCA significantly.

If they have immortals in Elucidium in any number and they say no, we might want to rethink crossing at this time. They are erratic enough to rush those immortals north to do as much damage to Brutus as possible rather than sticking around for a stand like that of the Old Guard at Waterloo.

	19-07-2003 05:36									#33
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I point out to all of thoes who have not been in the chatroom or at MZO lately that both GCA and CFC have given the go-ahead to us for attacking CDG. Both had a few comments on the issue, but I'll leave the posting of the logs and further details to the FAM.

	19-07-2003 05:41									#34
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Now as to how to let CDG know of this attack - do we outright surprise them with an attack or let them know first, risking them try to prepare for us? Or perhaps we send them a statement as we are about to attack them (when we have the save)?

This is a tricky question, but it would certainly be the best option if we somehow let them know we were about to attack due to our NAP being legally voided, repeated requests for help from GCA and the fact that we feel threatened by being constrained to our tiny section of the jungle. We should cite their strange unsettling tactics early in the turns and tell them we have been concerned about this erratic nature for some time. Wish them the best of luck on the battlefield etc.

Anything different?

	19-07-2003 07:32									#35
	Put an end to popups!

Notify them the turn our forces move into Karina? Or just declare war and cross the border? The later gives them 1 turn warning before we can attack anything. Giving them 2 turns warning could be very bad. They could arrange a reception for us.

	19-07-2003 08:54									#36
	Tired of ads?

Nope. No way should we notify them when they still have a chance to prepare, be it one turn or two. I was thinking aloud and addressing the possible options, and rubbishing them

I still think we should tell them, but only when we have the save the turn we attack. They will have noticed by then of course, as we will have moved next to one of their disease-ridden fleapits of cities that they have, but it's the only diplomatic thing to do.

	19-07-2003 10:29									#37
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Something in this situation stinks

Exactly my thoughts.

How the hell was GCA able to invade CFC with a powerful stack, getting as far as their capital, while still being able to repel a backstab attack by a stack of 4-5 CDG immos + spears AND get all the way up to Goatville and Zarigueya AND conquer these two towns???

Dunno what's going on... but would YOU press on after taking Goatville? Risking the loss of your Northern force?

Something stinks here, but I have little idea what it is.

	19-07-2003 13:07									#38
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Well, GCA coulda found a way to play with the RNG???

We don't owe CDG an explanation of why we are attacking. We decalre war, then move accross border, that's it. If any other nation inquires to the status of our NAP with them; we tell them that CDG made the NAP voidable by us on that turn and we decided to void it, legally, and declare war on CDG before we crossed into their territory. We do not have to give notice of this to any team. To be honorable, we simply declare war 'before' crossing into their territory.

	19-07-2003 13:51									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I would dearly love to see some FAM chatlogs with GCA on this, but I get the impression that GCA will push on confidently ONLY with our help. If we were having enormous success as they seem to be, would we want someone else in on the spoils? NO. When I saw someone (likely Trip) refer to them still being eager to get us involved as well, I was surprised, but this leads me to consider the idea that GCA has been lucky and KNOWS they have been lucky. They also are wary that Elucidium will be a harder target, and their luck can't last forever, so they are still happy for an alliance to weight the odds even further in their favour.

Well it is possible this is a great big scam, but as long as we don't expose ourselves to anyone (which we will not do under any circumstances anyway), we have naught to fear. Besides I think the more likely idea is that they want to divide and conquer in much the same way as we do. It is CDG's turn to unite against, and if they are planning the same for us then with our vigilance they will be out of luck if they try.

Circumstances are sus, I agree, but even with this uncertainty I still see no reason to not attack. It can only benefit Apolyton with a few extra workers and some troop experience at the very least. If we don't let ourselves trust GCA too much with war intel then we need lose nothing.

	19-07-2003 15:17									#40
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They were eager, but that was from a misinformed GCA ambassador who was on the first day of his job. Lucky set it straight by saying that they would be 'ok' with us taking the border cities, but not CDG's Capitol.

I believe he was too bold in saying this.

	19-07-2003 16:15									#41
	Suffering from ads?

How much of a Rep hit would we take with the other teams? Not much I don't think. It would be obvious to both CGA and CFC that CDG is in trouble (they have only 1 city left with any production at all) and they we are simply taking advantage if the situation. As far as Immortals in Possum and Alcohol, why would they keep them there when they are loosing cities to their south? Personally I think they have a token defensive presence plus maybe an immortal of two. All of their other units are either defending their capital or on some offensive somewhere else leaving their homeland vulnerabel that way.

	20-07-2003 00:59									#42
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Well, GCA coulda found a way to play with the RNG??? We don't owe CDG an explanation of why we are attacking. We decalre war, then move accross border, that's it. If any other nation inquires to the status of our NAP with them; we tell them that CDG made the NAP voidable by us on that turn and we decided to void it, legally, and declare war on CDG before we crossed into their territory. We do not have to give notice of this to any team. To be honorable, we simply declare war 'before' crossing into their territory.

Playing with the RNG is pretty difficult if the seed is fixed. Perhaps the could change the order of their attacks but that still makes it highly unprobable that they could make a decisive victory out of it, even enough to go and continue with their attack.

Something indeed smells fishy. CDG's collapse is too sudden and GCA's advance too fast.

BTW, and this is the last time I mention it, I still can't believe you RPers are whining over what GoW is doing in the PTWDG when we're doing the exact same thing here. Too bad I can't use these things as evidence...

	20-07-2003 03:30									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen BTW, and this is the last time I mention it, I still can't believe you RPers are whining over what GoW is doing in the PTWDG when we're doing the exact same thing here. Too bad I can't use these things as evidence...

If you look closely, you'll note that most of the ISDG RPers are merely the ones poking fun at you guys for breaking the MPP. For instance, personally while the specific circumstances in which you've done so I find mildly irrational, I fully expected you to behave this way and I don't hold it against you (you're a team that came clearly labeled, so we never trusted you BEFORE ). I'm just having fun at your expense just like I did in the old SPDG days with the Warmongers

The ones "whining" (they've been asked not to, seemingly to no avail) are partially non-ISDG people. Since a few of them are, I believe, on the Grenoule/French team in the ISDG, it would be worth keeping that in mind if we ever have contact with the French team in this game. For the rest, it's completely understandable that they're upset about it and you really shouldn't be surprised. Afterall, that seems to have been one of YOUR aims.

	20-07-2003 05:18									#44
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I know the whining is part of the trash-talking, don't worry..., and you of all people know I have nothing against the RPers, after all, some of us are FAMily ain't we?