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MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:29
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It's time we looked at priorities here.
Our only priority is and always should be what suits Apolyton best. Until now it has suited us to stay out of all wars and stay peaceful with all of our neighbours as it has let us build up and form a plan on where we want to get to. Now there is no point in deliberately staying at peace with CDG, diplomatic agreement or not. They will be dead soon, and we must get as much out of this happening as we can. When they are gone, no-one will care. We will not have committed any actions against CFC or GCA, and we shall have given them no reasons beyond their own for viewing us differently.
Elucidium will belong to GCA soon, and all of CDG will too, unless we take a little initiative to send our troops to take Cuido and Possum, and if we can, that idiotic chokepoint also. This will give us several tangible benefits:
- extra city or two (at least some slaves) - one more Gold tile
- some Elite troops, perhaps
- a buffer between us and GCA
- the chance to expand further into the jungle (if we want)
- the luxuries beyond the chokepoint if we can take it
True the city(ies) wil be rather corrupt, but one still has gold and at the very least they are good as staging posts against GCA if we like in the future as well as worker farms.
I believe we can carry this out without worryng GCA - we will still be nowhere near their core, and hopefully they can be magnanimous in victory by allowing poor little Poly to take some more crappy cities, whilst they keep the only real value target (Elucid). Besides, Possum and Cuido would be far more corrupt for them than us. If they were to continue their war with CFC, it would be far harder for them to defend the CDG lands against any attack we decide to launch, as they are no longer attacking in the small area of their core, but their armies are spread far and wide, and they will not have had the chance to build the troops to station everywhere.
There are of course some negative results that could energe from going for Possum and Cuido
- the breaking of the NAP with CDG
- increased corruption at home
- giving the impression we like to gang up on civs
The increased corruption will be small and not affect us very much. If we maintain good relations with CFC, there is no reason for them to feel threatened. What is our angle? We are definitely not teaming up with GCA, we are merely looking out for our own safety as far as CFC is concerned, and as far as GCA knows we are responding to their call for help earlier in the war. We are doing everyone a favour by eliminating a dangerously psychotic foe and to boot we are content with just a bit more jungle!
I don't see anything in breaking this NAP - that will not change any opinions. CDG itself was a danger and screwed around diplomatically themselves by offering mock peace treaties to GCA. Despite our faithful following of every agreement, no-one is idiot enough to believe that every agreement will be followed regardless of circumstances. Everyone knows that everyone is out for only themselves, and agreements are only made if there are benefits on both sides - no-one will trust us or anyone else THAT much. Besides, times changed a lot since that NAP was signed, and we were asked for help by friends GCA against the aggressor CDG, who have proved in the past to be unstable at best. We acted in the interests of a friend - GCA and in the interests of regional stability. We helped remove a dangerous element and in doing so got such a small reward for our endeavours.
I think we should prepare our troops, contact GCA and let them know we will help them in the final end to CDG, thus helping both of us get rid of them for good. We should let them have Elucidium and we have Cuido and Possum. Will they know about the chokepoint? If not we could take it before they find out. Otherwise we can make a strong case for taking it, and partitioning the jungle between the two of us. At the same time we need to keep CFC informed and tell them we are seeking a diplomatic end to the GCA/CFC war (but we are actually only half-heartedly doing this), and we are not condoing actions against CFC. With luck their war will continue for some time, allowing us to get to the point we planned for taking down CDG, and then GCA will be in the smelly brown stuff. If their war ends we may need to move more quickly before GCA rebuilds, but they should still be the target.
Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 18-07-2003 at 09:58
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:29
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The agreement we had with CDG is that if either team attacked another team, the NAP was to be voided. This is not a loophole. It is a 'clause' in the agreement. Granted CDG wont like it, but who cares? How long will they be around for anyways?
On the next turn we can have 7 Swords ready in Mingapulco. The 7 can leave on the turn after that. Another Sword we be finished in Incensity at that time, but need to travel 5 tiles to Ming to catch the group.
Time is of the essence here. CDG's cities are disapearing faster than Iraqui troops during the war. We need to get in quickly. 7 for the intial assault on Possumopolis and Cuido de Alcohol will be plenty.
We can move those 7 Swords from Ming to the Mountain, known as "The Knob", next to Karina, 2 turns from when we recieve the next save.
Those 7 move to Karina on turn 3 then all 7 move to keyboard #8 of Cuido de Alcohol and attack that city on turn 4.
That's 4 turns from the time we recive the next save. I sure hope Cuido de Alcohol belongs to CDG still. The rate at which GCA is advancing is alarming.
We then regroup in Cuido de Alcohol if we needed more than 3 Swords to take it. If we need 3 Swords or less, we can then send the 4(or more) Swords still on keyboard #8 of Cuido de Alcohol to keyboard #6 of Possumopolis on turn 5. At the same time the Sword that finished in Incensity can meet those 4(or more) swords on that turn on the same tile for a total of 5(or more) Swords to attack Possumopolis.
The whole time we keep our NM's out of the fighting. We save our GA for GCA now! 
We can regroup in Possumoplois and send reinforcements and plan the final assault on either Elucidia, if it still exits in CDG's hands, or to the choke point city.
So in 4 turns we get Cuido de Alcohol and in 6 we get Possumopolis.
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wervdon
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Thoughts re: Rush. This just violates our settlement agreement and is just as bad as attacking them if they dont give us the go ahead and they wont.
Thoughts in general:
It sucks, but we have no choice. The one thing we didn't want out of this was a stunning victory by any side, and thats just what we are getting.
The only thing to do now is cut our losses. Afterall a perfect rep + eliminated is still eliminated. I'd rather take the rep hit and survive, personally.
Diplomatically, I dont think its going to matter what we do, our days of being "under the radar" are gone and once we do this they won't be coming back. Since we can't make them ignore us, and "friends" in a game like this is a joke, we may as well do our best to at least make them respect and somewhat fear us.
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MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:29
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Thank you for making us consider altermate viewpoints, rush. This makes you one of the most valuable members of the team at this time. 
1. I think we need more info from GCA or CFC or both on how that theatre is going, and whether GCA has had to divert considerable troops to eliminate CDG or whether they are able to fight well in both spheres. However CFC is the greater potential threat to us due to their superior land. What do we have to gain from GCA continuing their war with CFC, and possibly causing CFC considerable damage? Their troops are far away, in CFC land, and unable to help against any potential attack we may make upon GCA. If however we have CFC gain the advantage over GCA, this would result in GCA's troops being located much closer to home, leaving us with fewer options or a tougher fight at least. As it is we want GCA to keep their troops far away from us, giving us at least the option to attack a spread out GCA.
The FAM team have gone to extreme lengths to ensure we have made good names for ourselves with both groups - let us keep this reputation with both as well, until we are very confident of our abilities. Speaking with one team against another we are not at war with is a big risk. I would rather we not give GCA any reason
to be suspicious of us, as they are the closer threat.
2. This is a radical change to the AltSp. a document agreed upon by a majority. Admittedly times have changed dramatically, so I shall ignore the AltSp for this discussion and think on this idea apart from any plans we have made and agreed upon.
What do we gain by letting CDG live? Nothing but a neighbour who is frighteningly random, with Immortals likely left over. And there is no benefit to cities located in that part of the jungle for us for a very long time. They would be corruption hellholes and drag our other cities' corruption down with them. Moreover, it gives me the jitters thinking of sending workers or settlers into a warzone, even one in which we are not participating at present. No, I think this is risky and will not reward us. CDG is best dead, and we should take the initiative to get what we can out of this most fortunate of circumstances.
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Adrian Hon
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Living in Perplex City
Nov 2001
time: 05:29
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As has been pointed out by BigFree, we have about four turns in which to act, if we are to attack CDG. I personally think that this will give us enough time to make it to their nearest cities before GCA, but it will be close, so we really must decide on our course of action now.
It's worth noting that even if we do upgrade some warriors and set them on a course to CDG, we still would have some callback time. What we are really deciding on now is whether to enter a state of heightened mobilization. The decision for war only has to be made when we cross the border, and that will give us a little more breathing space.
My own take on this situation is that we should attack immediately. The AltSP is an excellent document, but we need to adapt to the changing situation. CDG has already effectively been eliminated as a world power; no-one will cry if we attack them, and we are hardly going to have a worse reputation that GCA or CFC, who after all started fighting in the first place. We could claim to CFC that we are trying to maintain the balance of power by invading CDG.
Incidentally, I find it interesting that GCA keep on asking us whether we'll join in; they made have made some stunning advances in the war, but perhaps they will encounter fiercer resistance at Elucidia?
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18-07-2003 08:01
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