18-07-2003 14:50									#1
	How many people ACTUALLY have ADD? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Amidst all this "Adult ADD" hype, my son has just got caught in the "ADD trap". Yep, it has been officially "confirmed" that my son has ADD due to the fact that he cannot concentrate in math. Do you know why I think this is? Because, from observing him, he likes abstract and creative subjects. Math is simply boring to him.
Yet he gets diagnosed with ADD? Plus, you've got American culture working against you especially if your male because....Male adolencents (heres a shocker!) dont like sitting down in class rooms seven hours of the day. They like doing physical things. And (!) even young women can be affected! Maybe they get BORED or are thinking of OTHER THINGS? Yet so many children get diagnosed with ADD on rediculous basis such as that.
Personally, I don't think my son has ADD. He's very intelligent in other areas, always gets A's....Lately he's been opening up to me about girls and the normal teenage things....And he has a lot of stress. And it's SUMMER for gods sake....

Anyway, enough of my rant. Just respond to the topic.

	18-07-2003 14:54									#2
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yeah in most cases add is bullshit. [oldman] in my day we would just cut down on the red cordial [/oldman]

	18-07-2003 15:07									#3
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In my day, we called it being a brat or grounds fer a beatin'.

There's no drug therapy like a 2x4 with the word 'Therapy' on it.

	18-07-2003 15:15									#4
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Sounds like the normal thing in the technological Society.

If something (like a kid/pupil) doesn´t work diagnose a cause why it/he doesn´t work correctly and use Methods (like drugs) to fix it.

	18-07-2003 16:47									#5
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..........Oh, sorry. I was a million miles away............

	18-07-2003 17:03									#6
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I'm glad you won't give your son pills simply because he isn't a "model student" in math classes. All those pills can have strange effects sometimes.

	18-07-2003 17:43									#7
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Maybe if they weren't cutting back physical ed. hours , and selling kids sugar and cafeine thru vending machines, there wouldn't be so much ADD.

	18-07-2003 17:58									#8
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I think that the major cause of ADD or ADHD is the lack of discipline at both school and home. Schools try to take an approach with children that simply doesn't work. Kids are naturally full of energy and curiosity. The will be easily distracted as so much comes into their world on a daily basis that they are just learning how to respond to. Educators today just have no idea how to channel this and challenge kids. Half the kids I went to school with would have been diagnoised with ADD or ADHD in today's world. In my time the principle and his paddle were the behavior modification tools. Not to many of these people had to much trouble focusing when their alternative was to get their a$$ busted. Today, kids have no fear of this and are taught that adults cannot "mistreat" them...this gives them no real accountability. With no other way to control kid's natural tendencies, society has turned to drugs to change the natural order of things. A VERY poor choice IMHO.

	18-07-2003 17:58									#9
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Now they've got Adult ADD to drive worker's comp insurance companies out of business. Oh what a time to be alive.

	18-07-2003 18:39									#10
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I was diagnosed with it in the 80s (ADD or ADHD don't remember which)

I think I still have it (I have been off ritalin for years though, don't like being dependent on drugs)

but I agree that many people are being diagnosed with it that don't have it

Jon Miller

	18-07-2003 19:16									#11
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I was at a meeting Wednesday morning where a fellow was talking about a bill in Congress to shift the diagnosis responsibility away from teachers to parents and doctors. This one guy started (verbally) attacking the speaker, getting all emotional, saying he was diagnosed in 1967 and his four kids had it and that this thing would ruin everybody's lives.

Some people get really worked up over stupid ****.

	18-07-2003 19:19									#12
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it should deffinitely be done by doctors

Jon Miller

	18-07-2003 19:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller it should deffinitely be done by doctors Jon Miller

Jon, currently doctors rely almost exclusively on questionaires filled out by parents and teachers. Little actual observation by the doctor is done. These questionaires are , IMO, highly biased toward producing an ADD or ADHD diagnosis. In order to acurrately define what is ADD or ADHD far more observation from a trained doctor is indicated. Many teachers are aware of how to answer the questions to get the diagnosis they desire. It is my opinion that they do this in order to have to exert less effort in the classroom to control or challenge the kids.

	18-07-2003 19:48									#14
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brain waves are actually differnt (I beleive), this is what shold be tested

Jon Miller

	18-07-2003 19:52									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller brain waves are actually differnt (I beleive), this is what shold be tested Jon Miller

There is some evidence to support that different areas of the brain exhibit more activity in ADD and ADHD people. This science is very much in its infancy and no conclusions can be drawn about its overall accuracy. While this is a great new tool to assist doctore, it is not the fundamental test for ADD or ADHD. At this point, nothing can replace observation and reaction to stimuli.

	18-07-2003 20:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 Jon, currently doctors rely almost exclusively on questionaires filled out by parents and teachers. Little actual observation by the doctor is done. These questionaires are , IMO, highly biased toward producing an ADD or ADHD diagnosis. In order to acurrately define what is ADD or ADHD far more observation from a trained doctor is indicated. Many teachers are aware of how to answer the questions to get the diagnosis they desire. It is my opinion that they do this in order to have to exert less effort in the classroom to control or challenge the kids.

Your teachers are the ones who have a right do diagnose ADD?

Now I don´t ´wonder, why so much people in your Country are diagnosed ADD

Sorry, but I have to agree with John T.
I wouldn´t trust most teachers to diagnose psychological illnessses.
There are people trained for this kind of work, Psychologists and Psychiatrists and I´d rather trust them to be capable to make correct Diagnostics.
Techers are there to teach, that´s what they were trained for, not to do the work of a psychologist

	18-07-2003 20:11									#17
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Huh? What were you talking about? I lost track...

	18-07-2003 20:12									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST Your teachers are the ones who have a right do diagnose ADD? Now I don´t ´wonder, why so much people in your Country are diagnosed ADD

Odd, isn't it? They do not actually do the diagnosis, but the input from them is a major consideration in the process.

	18-07-2003 20:16									#19
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The only impact I can say it's had on my life is that it's very difficult to sit through, say, and entire 2-hr. movie. I usually have to watch a movie over a 10-hr period, otherwise I miss at least half of it.

I like my drugs green and leafy, not prepressed pill form.
Yes, I mean basil.

Coffee is good too. Oooh, and can't forget our other favourite little brown weed: Mr. American Spirit himself, in the burning flesh.

	18-07-2003 20:20									#20
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 Odd, isn't it? They do not actually do the diagnosis, but the input from them is a major consideration in the process.

Ah, I understand, jep it is very odd
sounds like the people who developed those procedures weren´t interested in a correct diagnosis (which could cost a lot of time), but to get a diagnosis (regardless if correct or not) as fast as possible

	18-07-2003 20:21									#21
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While I agree that ADD/ADHD is a real disorder (I have a friend that throws chairs at people if he doesn't take his meds), I also believe that it is grossly over-diagnosed. The criteria are currently too vague and subjective to reliably identify real cases. I mean, my God, if we diagnosed every kid who didn't pay attention in math class with ADD, I'd be on Ritalin right now.

	18-07-2003 20:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin The only impact I can say it's had on my life is that it's very difficult to sit through, say, and entire 2-hr. movie. I usually have to watch a movie over a 10-hr period, otherwise I miss at least half of it.

This is actually quite uncommon. In most ADD or ADHD people the one time they seem to exhibit focus is watching TV, movies, or reading books. It seems to be contradictory to me but I am told that it has to do these areas being so sensory intent that an ADD or ADHD person is not subject to the distraction of external stimuli.

	18-07-2003 20:23									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST Ah, I understand, jep it is very odd sounds like the people who developed those procedures weren´t interested in a correct diagnosis (which could cost a lot of time), but to get a diagnosis (regardless if correct or not) as fast as possible

This is the exact conclusion that I draw as well.

	18-07-2003 20:34									#24
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Shhh, don't tell anyone I told you:

ADD/ADHD is all a big conspiracy generated by big-pharma in order to sell overstock of placebo as very expensive "medication"...

---

Just kidding, I think it exists, but is also over diagnosed because stupid yuppie parents would rather give them tons of sugar to make them happy, and then give them tons of drugs to make them shut up so they can pop a bunch of pain killers, chase it with a vodka martini, and have sex so that they can make more trophy brats.... (hey, run on sentence)

Todays parents are wicked little people who find it a lot easier to ignore the problems their kids have by passing them over to grandma or sticking needles in their arms... Thank god for these morons, because of them I will always have a job.

	18-07-2003 20:35									#25
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quote: How many people ACTUALLY have ADD?

The real question is: Does ADD even exist?

	19-07-2003 04:20									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Sava The real question is: Does ADD even exist?

I think teachers use that excuse to punish people who are rebelious. (my teachers get mad brcause I say I'm proud to be rebelious). ADHD is simply an invention of our society to stop people being free-thinking and creative. Einstien had a good life and he didn't need no f*cking Ritalin. Stop making us take that mind-control crap.

ADHD=Very smart and unorthodox.

	19-07-2003 04:25									#27
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Well....In a visit with the psychiatrist, I've told them I refuse to give my B (Yes. B. Not C. B) math student pills for a disorder he doesn't have.

I highly doubt giving him pills is going to improve his love for math. What I'm going to do is try to encourage him to use math in practical applications, and maybe it'll spark his interest. But I know drugs are not the answer for this.

And yes, I believe ADD is a real disorder but it affects much less of the population than we are lead to believe.

	19-07-2003 04:35									#28
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I dont know if ADD exists... all I know is I was mis-diagnosed with it as a child, and taking medication for it almost ruined my life-after 2 years of having pills down my throat I simply refused to take them anymore(I was 9 or 10 at the time).

When I was young I simply couldnt stand sitting still in class all day...... It's worth noting I read and understood "The Time Machine" by Wells in two weeks when I was 7. I'm not claiming to be a genius-I know im not, but I've always done most of my "academic" learning outside of school, and because of it had NO interest for it-I LOVE to read and I've read tons of every topic for all of my life-school has always been a test of how patiently I can stare at a wall.

A 5 or 6 year old bored from sitting in a class day in and day out being told things he knows? *gasp*!

My school convinced my parents I had ADD, and it almost ruined my life. Taking those damn pills will give someone a psychological dependancy on it and will "explain away" someone's problems. No better way to discourage a child from trying hard, then giving him a crutch and telling him he has a legitimate condition-when he dosent: I am glad I realized THAT at a young age and refused to let my mind be warped by poison.


I am really, really angry that any child gets medicated for ADD, to be honest I really DONT think it exists, I think it is bad parents looking for an easy way out to explain why they shouldnt have to be parents.




I really cant express how strongly I feel about this topic in words, just thinking about it makes me physically angry.

	19-07-2003 04:40									#29
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Telling a child he has ADD is the WORST possible thing a parent can do.

If a parent observes a child has a problem that can be solved by working harder, does giving that child an exscuse to work even less sound like a good idea?


I'm ALMOST certain ADD dosent exist, but I cant be sure-from my personal experience however, medicating any child is wrong, I feel the deepest sympathy for any child who's live has been irrevicably ruined by being "diagnosed" with ADD.