18-07-2003 20:33									#1
	Saltpeper Navel Units (Frigates) Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Is there any sence in building frigates unless you're a small island nation?
I usually don't build any and wait for deatroyers and the big ones (battleships I believe).
If I get into war with a navel power during this wait, I suffer: my coastline is bombarded, my troop carrieng gallons are beeing sunk and I don't jave artillery support from the sea.

Should I build these "soon obselete" units? How many?

	18-07-2003 22:21									#2
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I am not fond of building more than the min number of ships, regardless of the type.
The key is what is the min for a given map.
So if you are going to be sending troops via ships and they could be attacked, they need escorts.
Coastal bombardment by Frigates is not a problem. They must get next to shore, so send over some cannons and hit them. If they loose a few HP's they will leave. If you are going to see lots of them, make a ship to finish them off after the cannons do their bit.

	19-07-2003 04:07									#3
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Let's just say that frigates are the bane of my life in my current game (C3C).

	19-07-2003 19:38									#4
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I don't build frigates anymore, and not much of a navy on most maps, in most cases. This is partly because I stopped playing on maps with a lot of water/islands/island continents - because the effort of overseas invasions verse the hassle of corruption and lack of productivity maintaining overseas possessions on the large/huge maps I play, wasn't worth it. And also partly due to the AI navy and its bombarding being a supreme nuisance, but never a real threat.

And those occasions I do build ships, they only for escorting troop transport vessels and as "mobile watchtowers" to make sure there are no massive naval invasion forces forming off my shore (haven't seen one yet. But read about a few in other's games). That said, I think,, comparatively frigates are okay, and they seem to have a better overall shelf life than the ironclad which is outclassed pretty quickly.

	20-07-2003 01:43									#5
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Let's just say that frigates are the bane of my life in my current game (C3C).

elaborate....

	20-07-2003 04:16									#6
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The NDA probably prevents much elaboration.

	20-07-2003 04:33									#8
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 The NDA probably prevents much elaboration.

I was wondering what his comment meant since I didn't know he was a betatester. I hope it means that with the new sea trait that AI waterborne units have also been beefed up. That was one of the main changes I wanted to see.

	20-07-2003 07:23									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill I was wondering what his comment meant since I didn't know he was a betatester. I hope it means that with the new sea trait that AI waterborne units have also been beefed up. That was one of the main changes I wanted to see.

Well either Warp is a beta tester or got a bootleg copy.
I believe Warp was a tester for PTW.

	20-07-2003 10:47									#10
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The problem is, a cryptic comment like this could be on either end of the spectrum - frigates are an improved unit in C3C and the AI is employing them effectively to Warp’s despair, or they’re fundamentally flawed and buggy.

I’m guessing its closer to the former.

	20-07-2003 16:52									#11
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I think the same. It doesn't make as much sense the other way.

	20-07-2003 17:13									#12
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NDA - National Defense Agency guys? Frigates I build as cannon fodder if I have to, but otherwise I dont bother.

	20-07-2003 18:53									#13
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quote: Originally posted by spy14 NDA - National Defense Agency guys?

They will be coming for YOU!!!

	20-07-2003 19:21									#14
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Actually, the reason I put that has little to do with the fact that I was testing C3C so much as that the AI stationed about 30 frigates off my coast and were ravaging the coast until I built up a navy. Even though individually they are weak units (actually, they aren't bad in their era) in large numbers they can be devastating. Sorry for the red herring.

	20-07-2003 19:34									#15
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THIRTY!

Wow.... *drools*

	20-07-2003 19:43									#16
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Actually, the reason I put that has little to do with the fact that I was testing C3C so much as that the AI stationed about 30 frigates off my coast and were ravaging the coast until I built up a navy. Even though individually they are weak units (actually, they aren't bad in their era) in large numbers they can be devastating. Sorry for the red herring.

so nothing has been done to lengthen the age of sailing?

	20-07-2003 19:45									#17
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I'll leave that up to Jesse to discuss.

	20-07-2003 21:51									#18
	Re: Saltpeper Navel Units (Frigates) Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm still trying to figure out why your Frigates require Salt and pepper? The ones in my game simply require Saltpeter.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 20-07-2003 at 22:03

	20-07-2003 21:52									#19
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That's funny... mine too.

	20-07-2003 22:03									#20
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker That's funny... mine too.

Maybe he feeds his sailors better than we do.....

	20-07-2003 22:06									#21
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That's it! The secret of effective Age-of-Sail units!