20-07-2003 02:18									#1
	Your Army Full PM-box? Change here!

Hi folks, I just puchased RoN two days ago, and I must say I really enjoy playing it. I played my first couple of games on Easiest, and won them with little effort. I am now debating weather to play my games on Easy or Moderate.

Anyhoo, I was just wondering how most people group their armies in the ealy game. Do you just make a few large masses of combined arms? Or do you keep like units together? (Groups of archers, Jav's ect.)

I usually just make a mass of combined arms, an I'm wondering if their is a more effective way to group them.

Thanks,
trickey

Last edited by trickey on 20-07-2003 at 05:52

	20-07-2003 05:45									#2
	Remove this text

Hello trickey. I'm also new to RoN but I've forgiven it and I'm really enjoying playing it.

As for your questions, I tend to group mine by unit type. I'll group them with cavalry in front (groups 1 to 3), followed by infantry (groups 4 to 6) and then seige units at 7, citizens at 8, and spies and scouts at 9.

I also try to give each group a supply wagon if it's a really big invasion. I'll tell the group to "attack" (actually "Guard") the wagon, and then I send the wagon to the destination. That ensures that your group stays together even in enemy territory, so you don't suffer attrition damage.

To make it easier, click and drag around your whole army and set that to group 0. Then, hold down Control and click to select only the units you want to group together. Once you've got them, assign them to a group number. Then press 0 again and repeat until you have the groups you want.

	20-07-2003 06:02									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=89010

I have a good few posts about this subject.

	20-07-2003 06:06									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

That link seems to be a missing page

	20-07-2003 08:04									#5
	Put an end to popups!

Ok Fine I'll just repost...

---------------

Hotkey One: First Infantry;

In this group I get together a good balance of all the Barracks units. In the older ages (pre-Industrial) I tend to get a mix of all types (with a little emphasis on Heavy Infantry, but definately not a overbalance) but as the game progresses and unit lines merge I try to get more and more of the base infantry (either Riflemen/Infantry/AssaultInf).

The anti-tank and machine guns are also present in my later armies (depending on how much my opponent uses of each type of unit [if he counter's with Inf, I get more MGs, if he sends Tanks, more Anti-tank guns/missiles, if they dont use tanks or inf alot, I'll either mix these two or ignore them).

If possible I try to get a few generals with the 1st Inf. The entrench ability is awesome and if you can reduce the city, sac it, and then entrench your troops around it you might as well call it yours. Nothing short of a nuke is going to take it.

I try to have a few Supply Wagons/Trucks with the Infantry also (because if Infantry tends to be in the middle of the action, and if the Supply train is with them they are in the middle too, the best place for them). Fewer supply trucks are needed as the game progresses because attrition is not really a threat to the large HP counts of modern units.

When actually attacking I leave the Infantry back until the city is reduced (either on hold ground or guarding the artillery or supply trucks). When the city is down I send them on an attack mission across the city (so they can block enemy counterattacks and pickoff the Citizens and Schlors. Once in position to defend your new city from counterstrikes, entrench, and enjoy.

Infantry is the most important of your troops and they are very easy to kill compared to the Armored units so always have alot of these guys. Terra Cotta army is of course recemended as it can REALLY get massed infantry for free while you can concentrate on the heavier (but by no means more imporant) troops.


Hotkey Two: Second Cavalry/Armor;

This is the heavier fighting force that will protect, support, flank, and screen for your Infantry. While in the older ages this group of units may be smaller than the Infantry (or even unnessicary) in the later times it becomes crucial to your chances of taking that city (you may notice I obsess over urban warfare, but I ask "Is there any other kind in RoN?"

But back to the subject. In the first few ages you have three types of Cav to choose: Heavy, Lite, Ranged. Ranged is unessacary in this context of conquest but of course are great for pure raids. I just use foot Archers for fire support in this kinda war because their cheaper and are protected by HeavyInf.

Lite I sometimes use (if they are going nuts on Lite Inf) or have Lite/Ranged Cav raids. But in this type of fight Heavy Horsemen shines. Almost my whole cav force is a Heavy Cav force early on. I use them in a wedge a use them to flank an enemy army (Alexander and the Companion style), either hitting the artillery or supply wagons or raping the enemy ranged infantry before turning to support my Inf. Just a small amount of heavy horsemen can swing a even or "your probably gonna lose" battle your way.

But in the post-Industrial age tanks start to rule. They kill everything. In the modern era I change the 2nd Armor to a force of an equal number of Tanks and Armored Cav (or equavilant) with a good amount of Helos and other units.

I agument this force for the following reasons: if they are having a large amount of Artillery I add more Armored Cars, if they are going either all Inf or all Tank I get more of my own Tanks (renember to be dynamic with your force composition in both inf and cav), and if they are going nuts for for air units I bring anti-airs along, and if they have a lot anti-air units/batteries I tend to leave the helos behind or go raiding with them (I go raiding with them anyways). I like Helos but don't love them because they tend to die really fast. Supply things can following these guys but you should be fine with just he Inf ones.

In combat I've already detailed my pre-Industrail tactics (does anyone notice how this game has two super-eras [pre- and post-industrial]). But here is armored warfare Sigma style... The force shall be sent in at the outset of combat, attacking to the position of enemy counterattack or enemy troops with the Infantry held back).

When the Infantry is sent forward position the armor to protect them, they are the lifeblood and the reason you shall capture the city. If they counterattack a massive flanking movement is always a good idea.

Hotkey Three: Third Artillery;

Deployment and force structure is not as important (or should I say difficult or complicated) with artillery so this article obviously will not be as long.

With this group I get together a pack of the best artillery of the day. The amount, not alot. Artillery is expensive and really only good to go after enemy defensive structures. It depends on how many static defenses your opponent has, but if they are loaded up on Fortresses try to have about eight. If not, about four.

In combat after you send in your armor forces target in this order enemy structures: Fortress, Bunker, SAMs (if you are using helos or aircraft at all, the city itself, and then production facilities that you DID NOT get when the city flipped to your side (obviously when the city is reduce that is high time to invade with your infantry or whole army.

After all enemy structures are santized from around your new city use the Artillery to support your army in an enemy counter-attack. Put you artillery as far forward and as close to anything it can hit. Deployments take a lot of time (not so much with Industrial stuff but the others are horrible).

Try to use the Artillery in an actual fight to assassinate enemy important units (ie Supply Truck/Wagons, Generals, and there Artillery if it is dumb enough to get in your range).

Be careful to preserve things like Wonders and structures that will help make your new city economically viable. If your attack route will force to into running into a Wonder while it is still not reduced / neutral, be careful. Micromanage the arty and perhaps change your angle of attack with the army.


Hotkey Ten; Tenth Air Force

First build an Airbase on your border, hopefully where enemies won't kill it or where it might accidenetally get sucked into enemy territory and die of attrition. Load it up with 10 Biplanes/Fighters/JetFighter/StealthFighters. These are your trump card. Send them on a air mission right in front of your troops.

They will do two things: dominate air 2 air combat over your troops (so enemy air power won't be able to hurt your guys) and give fire support. The fire support is crucial. Assassination of important enemy units (just like with Artillery) is advised.

If your enemy however has prepare adequate air defense then your play is Artillery. Use them to quickly take down enemy SAMs and mobile SAMs. Don't send these in till you can be reasonably sure of the safe passage in the skies.

If you feel you need more air units don't hesistate to get as many fighters in as many Airbases as you want, but renember those cost (the aircraft) money that could go to other projects. Ten is just a good number overall.

One of the first things you should do after your city is capture is build another Airbase in the new city and transfer the Fighter Wing forward to cut down on re-fueling down times. This helps in both defense and allows you to keep your offensive going while he is still unbalanced without a large loss of firepower.

Other stuff:

Having a pack of Citizens with your army ready to rush in and repair the city center once it is being assimilated is always a good idea. Gives them the added pressure of having to damage the city (to get it back) and fight your army, which is basically just like an offensive invasion only with less time and assets to prepare and do it.

Other units of course ("strategic assets") may support.

Bombers can be used to support the Artillery in hitting enemy static defenses and the city center (if there is no air defense, or if you got stealth just go strait in). Perhaps a strategy could develop where arty goes for the air d, then the bombers and arty can go to town on the other stuff.

Carriers can be used just like airbases only floating and mobile. You need more Anti-Airs if you use a Carrier for support becuase Fighter-Bombers are not that great fighting land based fighters. Battleships can support any sort of actions that are close to shore, serving in a artillery role just like the land Artillery and Bombers.

What my hotkeys are usually:

REAL ARMY
1 Infantry
2 Armor/Cavalry
3 Artillery

RAID ARMY
4 Land Units (Horse Units, Armored Cars)
5 Helos

RESERVES (defensive forces, navies, etc
6
7
8

AEROSPACE FORCE
9 Air Force (bombers)
0 Air Force (fighters)

The function keys I use for production facilites, airbases that I might need to scramble, and cities.

O and BTW when I said "Upon Attacking" I ment like "Im invading and trying to capture a city" style attack, not a raid to disrupt his economy. More on that later...

O and on MGs. They are good on defense. Get together some bazookas, MGS, and Anti-Airs, entrench or garrison them at a choke point near a Fortress and you can seriously damage or destroy an enemy attack. Yet again, more on that later...

	20-07-2003 08:07									#6
	Remove this text

Air Warfare:

I tend to build a Airbase on my border where there's been or shall be a war and fill it up with Biplanes and then upgrade them with tech advancements. Whenever I have to defend OR attack near that base I just hit my 0key (10th Air Force) and send the Fighters out to attack enemy forces that counter-attack AND to keep enemy fighters/bombers/helos from ruining my troops.

With Bombers I build Airbases near wonders or production centers or just anything important. Fill it up with six bombers and four fighters. Use the bombers to eliminate enemy wonders and economic power (hitting mines and oil wells, losing those is crippiling in the VI/VII/VIII eras).

All the airbases that are for defense/bomberd are on a hotkey so I can select a lot at once and scrambel them all when I see a incoming raid. Wonders are surrounded by 3-5 air defense structures to back this up. Of cource B-2s are a hell of a threat but if the fighters are scrambeled to spot for the SAM's then there is no problem.

I sometimes build Anti-Air's to escort my army if i'm either over an ocean or way away from my Airbase (o and BTW whenever I capture a city I immediately build a Airbase and transfer the 10th Air Force [and don't limit yourself to one, you can have as many Fighter Wings {7-10 Fighters} as you need {or can afford}] up so they can continue supporting the land army) but I think the best counter for a fighter is another fighter so I rarely bother (btw the Bantu are my favs, love those awesome Hawks 'n Eagles [wish they had a info age special Fighter...]).

But in a island map the Aircraft Carrier with her Fighter-Bombers is queen of the sea. With just a Cruiser or two for ASW defense these can wreck havoc (just like the real ones...). I usually have a lot organized into groups of two and use them like I do Airbases. Attack a city, move forward with air cover after assimilation. Only this will limit you to attacking either coastal or very close to coastal cities. But after you deny the sea to them and take all that land they have lost anyways...

Carriers are also the ultimate in sea dominace (except for a wolfpack of Subs versus a player who doesn't think escorts are important... :evilgrin. They sink BBs and D'naughts like Subs do en masse. Cruiser are kinda a threat to the airwing but you can overpower them or get your heavies on them (and BTW I do no ignore my BB's, I try to have a amount of them to [just depends on the conflict, channel/close-water warfare and close-to-shore conflict is better for BB's and open sea/deep strike/air2air is better for flattops). Subs are no threat to a escort carrier anyways.

The versitility of these things is amazing... to bad the game is usually over before I can get going with them... Plus the escort role metioned above.

I prefer to use its airwing like Fighters (for air2air and anti-troop action) and leave the bombing work to land-based B-17s/B-25s/B-52s/B-1s/B-2s (BTW what happened to Zepplins? hope their in the XP).

While the 10th Air Force/creeping Airbase strategy works well for land maps on sea maps I tend to not build the pure fighter bases and just get the defensive fighters/bombers bases and just use the carriers like I would the fighter forward bases on sea maps.

BTW Japan and Germany are also favs of mine with their quicker built aircraft and carriers.

	20-07-2003 21:05									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Great posts Signa! I will have to give all this a try. I wish I could use some strategy liek that, I usually just build up the most toups I can and send em in. Maybe thats why I'm having trouble with Moderate

	03-08-2003 13:33									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

There is one thing I miss in all the posts here: Spy's. They are great. Against strong enemies I always end up with an army of spy's. You need about 15 of them. Make sure to switch off "use abilities as group"

	04-08-2003 03:32									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I prefer not to use spy's... I just feel its too good...
But if I'm angry or really are trying hard I shall...
I usually just use the exploration units for counterintel.

	04-08-2003 05:46									#10
	Support Apolyton

Signa's got the idea right there. I basically have a much simpler version of what he's doing.

Unless resources of various types are scarce (scarce metal on amazon, abundant metal on southwest mesa, scarce timber on sahara and southwest, etc.) for my first control group, my infantry, I make an equal mixture of heavy and ranged infantry, because they seem to cover each other pretty well. This is particularly the case with the Germans, British, Japanese, Koreans, and other civs that have a long string of unique units in those two categories. This mixture of units ensures consumption of resources across the board and no defecit in a particular resource ; heavies take food and metal while ranged takes wood and gold.

I tend to hold off on cavalry until the Gunpowder age for resource reasons, but I have a feeling I could benefit if I started using it earlier...

Anyways, when gunpowder turns around I shift from heavy/ranged to heavy/light supported by ranged and/or heavy inf. By that time I've probably capped all of my resources (unless the map prohibits) and I can somewhat afford to double over on one or two resources (in the case of heavy/light, on food... which is okay with civs and wonders that increase food cap... in the case of ranged/heavy cav, it's on wealth, which is okay with Incas and British, as well as wealth wonders). I also always field at least four or so artillery pieces (enough to level most cities with relative haste) in a group of their own, with their own supply wagon (to ensure they shoot at maximum ROF).

When the industial age comes around, I tend to panic and cower in fear, because everything just gets too complex for me to manage it with the same efficiency I can in the other ages. In a normal Ancient-to-Info game, I'm used to attacking either between Middle and Gunpowder or waiting until Information. The second I get info age, I plop down a supercollider, research the rest of the normal library techs, and when the collider is finished, research missile shield (I absolutely hate getting nuked) and hope no one else has... if that's the case, I nuke my first enemy and head straight for the capital, which is even easier if I wait to get the knowledge required to get World Gov. In a team game, I get my ally to nuke them because I've been spending all my knowledge on getting to Info age and getting Missile Shield.

Anyways, that last part was a bit random, but in the latter ages I tend to rely heavily on light/heavy infantry mixtures and heavy tanks, with anti-inf tanks if the enemy just happens to be fielding a lot of foot troops (like if they have the terra cotta army).

edit : I forgot to add that I tend to keep two or so scout units attached to my main army to easily take care of spies. It's not so much that they can kill spies, more that they can spot them for my army to kill as they're going about their business...
yet another edit : particularly in CTW maps where I get reinforcements, I reserve the 3rd control group for something that's similar to my first army, or possibly it's just agile cavalry or something. With the 3rd army I simply attack whatever the 1st army is attacking, except from the flank or rear. Flanking maneuvers are only effective when two sides of an enemy formation are being attacked : the enemy has to decide which force to attack, and the force it doesn't attack gets to attack the enemy's flank. Sometimes it's worthwhile to slice the first army in half to make this force, simply because the flanking damage can give your force up to twice the effectiveness it normally has. Read the flanking thread for more info on this...

Last edited by nihilocrat on 04-08-2003 at 05:58

	04-08-2003 20:02									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Good ideas: nice job working in the economic side-effects of warfare in their also.