20-07-2003 12:59									#1
	10bc (27): Orders, Results, Discussion Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

post away

	20-07-2003 14:13									#2
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Move all Civilians out of Bilbao......

Really not muchto discuss till we see what happens. The wait will be almost unbearable.

ND's and GoW's positions may change once they see GS holding land/cities on Bob; we'll have to see. I think GoW and ND will attack both Bilbao and Santiago on their next turn. That will only get GS more hyped to destroy ND and GoW.

	24-07-2003 06:02									#3
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The save is here.

I have posted images of both the western and eastern fronts.

ND unit count:

by the iron: 1 pike, 1 inf
S of Santiago: 1 ansar (5/5), 1 answer (2/4)
Next to Zaragoza: 2 pikes (1 reg), 4 inf (1 reg)
in the open: 2 workers

No GoW units visible in the east, only 1 ND scout and 1 Inf.

--Togas

	24-07-2003 06:32									#4
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Ansars out in the open, eh?

[Palpatine voice]

Wipe them out... all of them!

[/Palpatine voice]

	24-07-2003 06:48									#5
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Hi. Togas, if you are willing to hold onto the save for a bit, I will be on line tomorrow night with the C3DG (we declair war on the Iroq then) and I would appreciate a chance to look at it and inspect our current military situation. Hopefully, I may assist in helping out Palpatine in his wonderfull recomendation above.... I have a couple of ideas, but my knowledge is very dated. So, if possible, email me the save and I will look at it prior to the other demo game, and get back to you around 8pm Eastern time... I know it is a long wait, and even if you cannot hold it, I understand.

And yes, I know that I have basically stated that I will resign here, and that as such I understand all that implies also, so if you and or others on the team are hesitant, no big deal.

GK

	24-07-2003 07:20									#6
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Any help we can get will be appreciated.

Save will not be played until Dejon has a chance to review it and after we consult with GS regarding the complex swaps that need to be done this turn.

However, please join us in chat during the next 24 hours as everything will happen quickly. I predict we will play the save some time tomorrow afternoon or early evening.

--Togas

	24-07-2003 07:35									#7
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Thanks. Looking tonight, and taking notes. I will post tomarrow or join the chat as possible.

	24-07-2003 10:44									#8
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Results

Turn played in chat with cooperation from NYE and Aeson. Mil orders supplied by GodKing and committee as needed.


ND has attacked us and GS. They took Santiago and took Leon in one turn. GS holds Bilbao.

GoW has not attacked and is not in our sight.

GS offered Inchon, we accepted. We then captured their catapults and returned to Inchon
We offered GS (accepted): Inchon, Toledo, WM, RoP, and 43g (all our gold)


Our palace gets another layer. Yay.

military:
Armada horses DECLARE WAR on GS, steal catapults, and hide them all in Inchon.
GuObs N
Christ's Pilgrins (pike) N, NE, N
Pope's Bannermen move to Vigo and FORT
The other spear and pike move S, SE of Vigo, cut the road, and guard the southern iron pass.
Iron Cross Pike remains on the Iron
Spear in Salamanca NW, NW, CUT ROAD
Pike near Merida N, NE, N into Salamanca
Catapult Bombardment damages a ND pike near Zaragoza.
Entire Eastern Stack moves into Toledo
4 Pikes on the Eastern Road move into Pamplona

New galley E, N, NE
Santa Maria NW, NW, NW
Nina N, N, N
Pinta NE, N, NW


workers:
Small Fry JOINS Toledo
Castor & Pollox NE, NE, N
King's & BCN W
Winter's Serf S, SE, SE
Aidun SE, SE, E onto Gold Mtn.
Visigoth N
Iron man ROAD


cities:
Barcelona finishes Galley, starts on horseman
Toledo finishes walls, starts on horseman
Vigo finishes pike, starts on pike
Salamanca RUSH walls

images posted Spain Page

--Togas

	24-07-2003 11:11									#9
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Some notes from the chat:

GS will be landing 14 units next turn East of New Madrid, then landing a Settler and another unit the following turn at SE, SE from madrid (the hill)

They do not see GoW Riders. We do not see them. Riders are not in range of Toledo. They believe they are going around/regrouping. GoW's delays will make it easier for us to defend against them.

Since ND and GoW are sharing intel, and GoW knows of the huge eastern stack, and they may have done city intel this turn on Pamplona .... it is believed that ND may strike at Pamplona now before we can defend it. ND knows that we have a big army on the front, likely in the walled city of Zaragoza. They may strike and destroy our capital, and then use their reinforcements to slowly whittle down the Zaragosa defenders.

However .... we have 6 pikes and a horse in Pamplona now. BETWEEN TURNS, after GS accepts our cities, Pamplona will be teleported 2 horses, 7 catapults, 4 pikes, and 6 inf.

The grand total of units in Pamplona when ND strikes will be: 10 pikes, 6 inf, 7 cats, 3 horses.

ND will be defeated if they attack us!

--Togas

	24-07-2003 11:40									#10
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That will be very nice! (If it happens) Since ND goes before GoW, GOW can't investigate Pamplona again for ND.

	24-07-2003 16:59									#11
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I am glad we played the turn quickly and didn't further delay the save.

I was confident that last turn's orders held ample direction for this turn, and with more GS guidance, things look to have been handled quite well.

The only thing that puzzles me is the choices around Vigo - could someone explain the reasoning there?

It should be noted that we lost the units that cut the roads and the Leon defender. IIRC, these were: Santiago Guard (pike); Smashing Maul 7 (medinf); and the Last Cutting Edge.

	24-07-2003 20:13									#12
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So can we keep passing Inchon back and forth for ever creating a defender for free each trip?

Sounds like a MP exploit. But I like it!

	24-07-2003 22:14									#13
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unfortunately, it doesn't create any units like it does with the AI. All it does is send all of the units in the city to your capital. The team that recives the city receives it empty, and without any culture. When we do this we kill all of the culture AND all cultural improvements in the city exchanged.

We COULD keep a unit in Estonia and capture more catapults and send them back, but we didn't. All of the units in Inchon will be in Pampalona next turn.

--Togas

	25-07-2003 01:01									#14
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I don't think it is exactly an exploit. It should be a way to do things like that in game for allies.

	25-07-2003 01:17									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Togas However .... we have 6 pikes and a horse in Pamplona now. BETWEEN TURNS, after GS accepts our cities, Pamplona will be teleported 2 horses, 7 catapults, 4 pikes, and 6 inf. The grand total of units in Pamplona when ND strikes will be: 10 pikes, 6 inf, 7 cats, 3 horses. ND will be defeated if they attack us!

Unfortunately, they'll probably just reload the save and not attack if they sustain losses that they don't think are acceptable.

	25-07-2003 01:31									#16
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That would be cheating. If we ever cought them doing something like that we would all gang up on them and destroy the SOB's. How we would catch them is beyond me, as they generally don't show up here that often to just chat...... but that is a different matter.

	25-07-2003 01:35									#17
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We would not do that ruby_maser; and I don't think ND would either. In fact, I don't think any team would do that in this game. I trust the other players enough to really believe that. Even if GF is on one of the teams.

	25-07-2003 01:37									#18
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quote: They do not see GoW Riders. We do not see them. Riders are not in range of Toledo. They believe they are going around/regrouping.

Perhaps they are regrouping for a backstab of ND in a few turns, though I'd expect they'd wait a bit longer.

	25-07-2003 03:15									#19
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree We would not do that ruby_maser; and I don't think ND would either. In fact, I don't think any team would do that in this game. I trust the other players enough to really believe that. Even if GF is on one of the teams.

Maybe, its time to clarify that then. We should declare it in the public forum as a policy of ours and ask that others teams stand with us in honoring it.

I would not put anything beyond the other teams after so much time has been invested in this game.