21-07-2003 02:46									#1
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...we must know the past.

Now that we and RP are complete allies for the rest of the game (pending official ratification), there should be no more secrets between us.
I suggest that we set up a chat with RP where a lot of players from both teams will be present, where each team will try to summarize the parts of its game history that are relevant to the other party (e.g. RP will tell us how they tried to get Bob to embargo us and what they know about the Vox war that we don't, we'll tell them whatever they want to hear about GoW, ND and Lego).
By getting rid of the remaining secrets and skeletons in our mutual closets, we can create stronger bonds and trust between the two teams. Plus, we may get some insight on how other teams work and how they act when they're talking to someone else.

What do you think?

	21-07-2003 02:50									#2
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Good idea, with one problem: we are bound to secrecy on many deals. E.g. the NAP with GoW: so far, we have mentioned to RP we can't attack GoW "because of past arrangements", we have not given them any details.

I do think we should clear some of the RP involvments into our affairs, but we must anticipate that RP will at least bend the thruth. They may be our allies from now on, I still don't fully trust them...

DeepO

	21-07-2003 02:52									#3
	Put an end to popups!

I still think we should bring up with them the possibilitity of allowing one of our team access to RP's forum. They could hide less from us. THAT would certainly calm most my fears of dishonesty.
They could still hide from us elsewhere, but it would be extremely difficult.

	21-07-2003 02:55									#4
	Put an end to popups!

It is a good idea, but I would suggest to make it later, about 2 weeks from now. At the moment, RP may feel pressure from it. Let's first settle things down a bit and make sure, the alliance works.

	21-07-2003 02:59									#5
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Yes, I like SR's approach.

	21-07-2003 03:00									#6
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Sir Ralph has it. Eventually, we might exchange observers to the forums. We may get to the point sooner where they forward the save to a few of us, so that we can give better advice faster. It sounded like dejon appreciated the input this last chat in milops.

	21-07-2003 03:02									#7
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Sr: totally agree. too much flying around right now. there will be time for all to come out...hopefully

	21-07-2003 03:34									#8
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I agree with SR that we should wait a bit for access to forums... but please note that Shiber's suggestion really has 3 parts:

1) Understanding the past
2) Monitoring the present
3) Enhancing our relationship

I suggest an interim approach: Each of us appointing a Special Envoy to the other.

The Ambassadors can continue to conduct diplomatic, military, and other formal affairs.

Concurrently, the Special Envoys should, via chat, PM, email, or even their own special private forum, develop the relationship between RP and GS. Within limits, ask and answer any of the questions we ahve about each other... and a bit of roleplaying probably wouldn't hurt.

	21-07-2003 03:38									#9
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well... who has the extra time for roleplaying, or to read all of RP's forum? And who would find time to read all of our forum? (Apart from Trip, of course )

But the special envoy idea seems a good one. Not sure if it will work, though.

DeepO

	21-07-2003 10:47									#10
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Truth be told, I actually have a horrendous amount of extra time on my hands. You don't participate in seven democracy and have time pressures.

	21-07-2003 17:39									#11
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SEVEN?!?!
And I thought I was a demogame-junkie...

	21-07-2003 18:04									#12
	Remove this text

I've got problems keeping up with one... Octavian X, if you volunteer, we might get you into the RP forum. But I agree that that can't happen for the moment, RP would feel pressured, and we gain nothing with having a paranoid partner.

DeepO

	21-07-2003 18:39									#13
	Put an end to popups!

We'd need to either give Octavian X access to RP's forum, but that means that he'll be bearing the RP civgroup icon, and people would know that we have a serious alliance here, not just a temporary arrangement, or we can register a new user that every one of us can use (but I recommend that only Octavian X will use it, and report back anything he thinks we ought to see, since I think that you can't be logged on with the same user from different IPs; we'll have to try to know for sure, though).

	21-07-2003 18:56									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Shiber, you're suggesting to make a DL ? wait until Ming finds out

But you're right, there is one big practical problem: the icon. Not that it shows always, so perhaps we could make it temporary during 'poly stress times...

DeepO

	21-07-2003 19:27									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Actually I considered that problem... but if we all use it and it's not just a d/l for Octavian, then it isn't really a d/l, is it?
We'd better get confirmation from Ming anyway.

	21-07-2003 19:33									#16
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Oh, and nice ass-covering post DeepO

	21-07-2003 21:10									#17
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Just say you like the icon. That worked for GhenisFarb and Vox.

	21-07-2003 21:22									#18
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hey, was GF accepted into the Vox forum? Why can't we see which members are accepted anyway? :grrhhh:

DeepO

	21-07-2003 21:31									#19
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I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the forum, GoW have probably got alot up their sleeve in terms of evil plans.

	21-07-2003 21:32									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Nope, GF is just wearing the icon, nothing more.
-
I very much doubt Ming will go for thopugh.

	21-07-2003 21:39									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

it does bring one point forward, though... would any member of GoW have been admitted to ND and vice versa? It would certainly make them more trusting

DeepO

	22-07-2003 08:34									#23
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I remember that took forever for some people to actually realize that I was on GS. I think that if I layed low out of the public forum, no one would really notice...

Nevermind. I forgot about the PTWDGII... I play the save, and it wouldn't take long for someone to notice, unless we played GF's angle (I just like the RP symbol...).

Last edited by Octavian X on 22-07-2003 at 10:43

	22-07-2003 16:48									#24
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The thing is of course that the Voxian icon was made by GF... I can imagine he likes it

DeepO

	23-07-2003 06:18									#25
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Octavian, your name already came up in ISDG chat. Someone asked when you had joined GS.