22-07-2003 03:22									#31
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Interesting starting point to the next discussion with GoW.

"We are here first and foremost as Defenders of Spain."

Wipe out the Ansars on RP territory, and take it from there.

	22-07-2003 03:35									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Interesting starting point to the next discussion with GoW. "We are here first and foremost as Defenders of Spain." Wipe out the Ansars on RP territory, and take it from there.

We are on a holy crusade led by Frater Ralphus to drive out the Moors.

...

We should inquire as to the extent the MPP is in play. Attacking offensive units in a third party's territory doesn't seem like something to require a mpp.

Ah, here's a thought, they probably have a clause saying that it is void if Nd attacks another civ. So, essentially both civs might avoid us and slowly rumble towards pamplona.

	22-07-2003 03:39									#33
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GoW might avoid us until we start to seriously annoy them with blocking move (e.g. have a 30 odd warriors from East to West in a maginot line), and they will probably try to not pass our cultural borders as well. ND however? I think they will simply pass us, even if they don't attack us.

Which makes it interesting: would a clause telling them to not attack any other civ then RP also includes passing someones cultural borders? We've got a lot of diplomatic jugling on our hands

DeepO

	22-07-2003 06:05									#34
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In chatting with RP as they were playing their turn, I arranged to have two pikes from Toledo shifted to where they can be moved to protect either Toledo or Pamplona, depending on the situation. As I understand it, that plus other builds and shifts should give them seven pikes and two horsemen in Pamplona. Barring truly atrocious luck, with cat support, that should provide enough forces to hold against at least ND's first wave. (Keep in mind that ND has to kill two units to take Leon on the way to Pamplona, assuming I understand RP's plans correctly, and the first Ansar in the attack would be vulnerable to a MedInf counterattack from Zaragosa, so Pamplona shouldn't have to beat off all ten Ansars if ND tries to press ahead as quickly as possible.)

	22-07-2003 06:07									#35
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By the way, don't be surprised if ND and GoW make a joint decision about how to handle our getting involved in the conflict. They can always amend their alliance agreement however they feel like they need to to deal with the situation.

	22-07-2003 06:10									#36
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Oh, I fully assume that the lack of either direct contact or public forum activity is due to ND and GoW manically developing their plans... jointly, and, given the tensions, separately.

What tangled webs we weave...

	22-07-2003 06:16									#37
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That sounds good! Should be 3 Horsemen too, as they had one from Bilbao. I think they would lose Toledo if those Pikes go to Pamplona, but it would hurt GoW at least. The problem then is that GoW can make it to NM very quickly, instead of moving slowly through the jungle around our territory. We could use our units to block the Mountain range SE of Toledo.

How many more turns are on the Chivalry NDA?

	22-07-2003 06:20									#38
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Chivalry NDA ends at our turn 131... 3 turns from now

And we will still need to decide if us taking Toledo isn't better for RP, but this will depend on what happens on the ND front

DeepO

	22-07-2003 06:39									#39
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It would be nice if we can figure out a way to help RP keep those Horses alive until then. It will really help things out if RP has some mobility. Otherwise cities taken purely by Ansars can't be properly counter attacked.

	23-07-2003 17:32									#40
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Back to the topic of this thread: Arnelos is starting to comment on us accepting cities, and our reasons to do so. We should avoid this! No lose public announcements, if we want something public, we should at first discuss it amongst ourselves.

I can understand the frustration of Arnelos, we have all felt it before when under attack, but it's too easy to damage our relation to Lego if RP starts to spill things.

DeepO

	23-07-2003 18:27									#41
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Bleah. People in the public forum are calling this "RP's brilliant move."
Anyway, you're right DeepO. I'll send him a hasty PM (I'm sure that the team would back this up, if not - still, no harm done).

	23-07-2003 18:30									#42
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Shiber, we also need screeshots and unit counts.

	23-07-2003 18:37									#43
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About "RP's brilliant move" I wouldn't worry about it right now. Wait until they we shove 30+ units down their throats.

If GoW wants to think that RP is playing us, fine. That doesn't change what we do. We get our army over there and we kick the everliving **** outta ND, and GoW if they get in the way (or after our NAP expires).

-Arrian

	23-07-2003 18:43									#44
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Actually, it's good for us if others (not only GoW, but more importantly Lego and Vox) think RP is puppeteering us. In reality, I think it's the other way around, and we want to hide that at all cost. So let them think we're too naiev to see how RP is manipulating us, I don't mind at all!

DeepO

	23-07-2003 18:55									#45
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By the way, UnO just went fishing in that thread (writing up an absurd version of events) that I *almost* responded to with this:

quote: *swooosh* The sound of the baited line being cast by UnO. Goin' fishin' today? -Arrian

But then thought better of it.

Let them eat static.

-Arrian

	23-07-2003 19:06									#47
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Should we encourage this belief by taking ND up on their offer to reimburse us what we paid for Santiago, and ask for a tech to compensate us?

	23-07-2003 19:14									#48
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No.

	23-07-2003 19:18									#49
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It wasn't actually a serious suggestion, which perhaps I ought to have made clear. I wouldn't approve of lying in diplomacy like that either.

	23-07-2003 19:22									#50
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Ah, ok, I wasn't sure. Sorry.

I was worried that ND might actually agree to pay us

-Arrian

	23-07-2003 19:31									#51
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ND would most certainly agree to pay us, I wouldn't be surprised if they would pay 1000 gold to not get attacked. At least they would pay that once they see what troops we're deploying.

DeepO

	23-07-2003 19:36									#52
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Hey, I just thought of something: UnO is telling that we got the city, and paid both technology and gold for it. Now, where can he get this information?
- technology from the science advisor, which shows a sudden increase of 3 techs for RP (2 of those came from Lego)
- but there is only one place where he can see that they gained gold: city views. I strongly doubt that RP or Lego would have told GoW about RP getting gold, so city views are the only way to go. Meaning that either have they investigated cities, or, the easiest solution: they have established an embassy with RP last turn, one turn after ND did the same. We should definately ask about this to RP, otherwise GoW is investigating cities.

DeepO

	23-07-2003 19:59									#53
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I really wanted to post this image in the public forum, but decided to maintain radio silence. I just had to share it with somebody, though.


Is that Togas' arm?

	23-07-2003 20:03									#54
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Great picture! I would absolutely love to see it in the public forum, particularly in the S.P.I.N as newsflash. "Paparazzi took a photo of puppetmaster Togas' arm". How would this sound? What do the others say?

	23-07-2003 20:10									#56
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I'm in favor. They can't make any useful information out of it, and it's important that we don't broadcast absolute radio silence or else "we've got something to hide".

	23-07-2003 20:19									#57
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Gathering Storm proven to be a puppet of Spain
Togas caught controling the armies of chickens! Civilized world in shock and awe!

Something like this...

	23-07-2003 20:24									#58
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It is done: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...111#post2200117

	23-07-2003 20:25									#59
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oops, cross-posted.

Your headline is better SR, I'll edit mine.

	23-07-2003 20:53									#60
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nevermind...DP

Last edited by alva on 23-07-2003 at 20:59