21-07-2003 23:12									#1
	RP gifts Bilbao and Santiago to GS! Suffering from ads?

from Borc:

quote: Urgent CHAT Hello master zen, hello panzer! We have the save and we urgently have to chat today! RP has given "Bilbao and Santiago" to GS. let us chat asap, maybe NOW? all the best Borc

	21-07-2003 23:15									#2
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CrazyGhengis tries to remember who was trying to urge the Riders NOT to move to attack Bilbao...............

	21-07-2003 23:32									#3
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Lets go for a rop with GS and ND. Lets use the roads then. Lets also try to get GS to gift these to us, in exchange for the territory they desire or before we move lets have an emergency chat with GS. This could be a good opportunity and also tells me RP knows its over.
Aggie

	21-07-2003 23:45									#4
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	21-07-2003 23:49									#5
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From Shiber to Borc:

To ambassador Borc and the people of Neu Demogyptica,

Due to recent events, Gathering Storm has had to make some very difficult
decisions lately.

We are sad to have come to this, but we are afraid that cooperation in the
matter of your war against RP between our two fine nations does not seem
possible.

We believe that our minimal claims for strategic land on Bob were
legitimate, but since our concerns were ignored by your representatives, we
have decided to switch sides in this conflict. We are informing you of this
change ahead of the time that you will receive the save in the spirit of
good manners and sportsmanship.

When you take a look at the save, you will notice that the city of Santiago
has changed ownership, and its gates now sport Gathering Storm banners. We
have promised some limited help to RP in their struggle for survival, and
there is yet more to come.

We understand that these new steps may mean that a state of war between our
two nations will become inevitable, and we are ready to face the
consequences. But please, let us not allow any in-game wars to cloud our
personal relations. Let us not hate, let us fight if we must, and share a
drink in Valhalla, together.

Best regards,

Shiber, GS ambassador to ND.

	22-07-2003 03:15									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

How come they didn't send us anything? Do they HATE us?

	22-07-2003 04:02									#7
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They cant send anything to us .. because we have a NAP.

The above is a declaration of war

So...

We contact GS.. tell them that the message sent to ND is a declaration of war.

GoW does not recognose that the gifted cities now belong to GS. They are RP cities, and GoW will take the cities.

Fight to the death

	22-07-2003 04:20									#8
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OK - And now that I have calmed down.

1. We try to damage the RP rep as much as possible.
The offer Togas sent us MUST be published on the main forum.

Quote the text, and then write a comment underneath, that GoW would like to officially open talks of peace and discuss the above offer. We will request that some of the conditions must be changed.

2. Contact GS. Tell them that GoW does not recognise GS ownership of those cities, and a simple "change of flag" that can be gifted back will be ignored.
If they want a city.. they can attack RP and take one for themselves. The GoW will respect that action only.

- if we dont recognise the gifting, then our NAP is not voided. Plus also remember, that we agreed to not to publicise the NAP .. so no mention of it please.

	22-07-2003 05:31									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 From Shiber to Borc: To ambassador Borc and the people of Neu Demogyptica, Due to recent events, Gathering Storm has had to make some very difficult decisions lately. We are sad to have come to this, but we are afraid that cooperation in the matter of your war against RP between our two fine nations does not seem possible. We believe that our minimal claims for strategic land on Bob were legitimate, but since our concerns were ignored by your representatives, we have decided to switch sides in this conflict. We are informing you of this change ahead of the time that you will receive the save in the spirit of good manners and sportsmanship. When you take a look at the save, you will notice that the city of Santiago has changed ownership, and its gates now sport Gathering Storm banners. We have promised some limited help to RP in their struggle for survival, and there is yet more to come. We understand that these new steps may mean that a state of war between our two nations will become inevitable, and we are ready to face the consequences. But please, let us not allow any in-game wars to cloud our personal relations. Let us not hate, let us fight if we must, and share a drink in Valhalla, together. Best regards, Shiber, GS ambassador to ND.

I read this as a declaration of war.
So by accepting a RP city, they are declaring war against ND.
Yet when they accepted Bilbao, this is not a declaration of war against us ? The NAP is no longer in force.

ND should pile everything into Santiago.
We should do the same (although Bilbao will raze...so perhaps not)

Regs

	22-07-2003 06:17									#10
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If we can keep GS out of our hair we can take out RP. We need to make GS start the war not us. GS has enough members that detest the idea of starting a war that it should take them awhile to get enough support to go through with it.

	22-07-2003 07:40									#11
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I agree with GF here. Let them start it, not us. Let their own "honour code" be their undoing.

	22-07-2003 08:20									#12
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OK - How about this.

ND & GoW joint statement.
We do not recognise the transfer of those cities. Temporarially changing a cities banner during a war, to stop that cities from being invaded... is not in the spirit of the game.

If GS wishes to become involved in the war, then let them declare it openly in the public forum.



I assume (I dont have a map in front of me) Santiago can be attacked by ND. I say let ND poor their forces into it.

GS is getting involved in the war.
They cannot attack ND easily just yet.
And the cannot attack us yet.

So let ND take the undefended city, and they can use it as their base of operations to destroy RP.

We ignore Bilbao (Dammit) and take the hard way in.

GS cant attack us...we do not give them rights to travel in our territory, so they will have to attack ND via RP.

Thats gives us a few turns to do as much damage as possible to RP as possible.

We should not fool ourselves. GS sees this as their option to win the game. They will commit all of their forces to take ND, and then us.

I say we manouver our troops, and then backstab GS and kill their troops in RP or ND territory. Screw the NAP. This is the serious part of the game, and we have to do it.


I would say that we should take Bilbao...but that will mean GS will invade us in the north. and then take ND.
So .. OK we dont take Bilbao, and make GS attack from the south

	22-07-2003 09:23									#13
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Sent to Borc and Darekill as an appeal:

quote: Borc; Darekill, We had a very long chat with some Gathering Storm personnel this evening. I still have some hope that they can stay out of the war as much as possible, IF some compromises are made. First, let me make myself clear. There is no way that Gathering Storm is going to stay out of the war by themselves now. It is either that they help Roleplay, which is unnaceptable to both of us, OR that we keep them out by promising them something more tangible than getting a bigger chunk of Legoland. This decision is for Neu Demogyptica to make. We can either agree to compromise a bit by allowing 3 Gathering Storm cities on Bob, OR, we can go to war with Gathering Storm, which essentially suicide as far as winning the game goes. Although the details on the cities have not been worked out currently, we can put certain restrictions on them to make sure that they are not a beachead for any possible invasions from the Gathering Storm. I am sure that, if you wanted, we could have some sort of mutual protection pact from Gathering Storm invasion. We need more time to negotiate this. You can help us have more time by bypassing the Stormian city of Santiago for this turn. The team of the Glory of War is begging of Neu Demogyptica to please let that city alone for now. We fear, that if you take it, it will upset Gathering Storm to the point that them invading us is inevitable. Please do not take that chance. Panzer32 Emperor of your good friends and Allies, the Glory of War.

	22-07-2003 09:39									#14
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RP held onto the save for 3 days !!!!!
They are full of sh!t if they say is was because Poly was down.

Tell ND to hold onto the save for as long as they want.

Make an offer to GS.. if they accept. Santiago is saved.
If they decline Santiago is destroyed.

This is a real opportunity for ND to move troops into RP and take an undefended city. This is a big ask by us. If I was ND, I would decline.

ND holding the save is a far better option.

Regs

	22-07-2003 19:00									#15
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From Darekill:

quote: First of all I've started a poll to get all the needed authorization for me and my Co-Consuls that we need to do what ever we find that is needed to do. this will include everything that can possibly be done in this turn. So there is a chance that we let Santiago in the Hands of GS. Before we choose to do so we need more information. What is with Legoland. Will they enter the fray? What will GS do do we have any guaranties from them? What will you do if we choose to take Santiago which is very likely if I have it my way? How do you see the chances for GoW and ND with GS on our Continent? To make it clear i don't like the picture of GoW and ND duck before GS like a rabbit before a snake. If you think that an attack on GS now means suicide then why should it be better to wait until they have even more power and a bridgehead on Borconia. I don't believe much in negotiations anymore. To speak it out in a very clear voice and there is no offense meant. I'd rather see ND go down in an war against all other Nations including maybe even our good allies GoW then to duck out of a confrontation. This is not my style it has never been and i wont start with it. I understand that GoW wants to win but at what price? Would you act like Lux to avoid one Sword for the price of running in another one? Or would you rather act like Vox that sold their home soil for an exile from which they can never influence the game again? Would it be your way to invite a third party to take your cites to help protect you from invasion even if you know that this will seal your fate too like RP does? I would not go one of this ways. I'd rather loose the game and go down fighting like a man with all the power that i have left. Maybe if i really would find my case hopeless i'd surrender by abandoning all cites and go to leave the game. But then I'd donate the cites to the enemies that were going to be victorious over me. So that is my personal point of view and I think i had to state this once and for all. now let us discuss how we can go on.

	22-07-2003 19:23									#16
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ND is at war with GS.

	22-07-2003 19:45									#17
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To Borc and Darekill:

quote: Hi. Sorry I couldn't respond; I was sleeping I can answer you questions: >What is with Legoland. Will they enter the fray? We have approched Legoland to see what they would do against Gathering Storm. Unfortunatly, they cannot provide real military support because Gathering Storm is such a far trip with galleys. >What will GS do do we have any guaranties from them? This is sort of an ironic question, as Gathering Storm has repeatedly asked us what guarantees they will have from you. I suggest that we assure them that you are committed to invading Legoland after this war (I thought you are, am I right?). Also, to assure both sides more, we would need to have a demilitarized zone surrounding the few Gathering Storm cities on Bob. I am sure that we can negotiate an agreement where Gathering Storm can only have 1 military unit in each of their cities there. >What will you do if we choose to take Santiago which is very likely if I have it my way? We will keep trying to negotiate with you and Gathering Storm. Unfortunatly, they might be even less willing to cooperate. This is why we ask you to leave Santiago just for this turn. If things don't work out, you can always take it next turn. >How do you see the chances for GoW and ND with GS on our Continent? So long as we make sure that Gathering Storm brings only a few military units on to Bob, so they can defend their cities. We can always monitor the situation by having reconaissance boats in between Bob and Estonia/Stormia that would see an invasion starting. We could have a mutual protection pact also that would serve to reassure us both against invasion. Also, a nonagression pact with Gathering Storm while we are invading Legoland would help. This is how I see the situation. We need to just get Gathering Storm to take the three cities on Bob, and then it will be much easier. Otherwise, they might get even more cities on Bob, including some of your cities. All we need to do it temporarily compromise a bit. You liken the situation to a rabbit bowing before a snake. What I see this as is the rabbit bowing to save its life, and then, later, the rabbit will be able to kill the snake with the help of its good friend the Glory of War. If you are worried about being able to invade Gathering Storm at a later date, do not be. Combined together, our great civilizations would have approximatly 600 tiles from which to create units. Gathering Storm has only just over 200 tiles. We can beat them in productivity eventually, but not now. We need to take Roleplay's land before we go to war with Gathering Storm so that we will be sucessful. I believe that we can still win, and the honour of winning is so much greater than any dishonour that we would have by allowing Gathering Storm to have a measly three cities on our great continent. Thank you, Panzer32, Emperor of the Glory of War PS - how long until you have to pass the save on? If it is soon, then I suggest going over the 24 hour mark. I say this because Roleplay took 3 DAYS to complete their turn, and we are in a big of a bind as they are. Please just consider this

	22-07-2003 20:06									#18
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From Darekill, evidently before he got that last communication

quote: Gentleman. The dice are fallen. We have to make our turn now and we will take Santiago. We waitet for your answer we have the turn for 23 hours now it's getting time.

	22-07-2003 20:33									#19
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And they're sending us the turn now. We have to check with Gathering Storm if they will still accept any kind of peace with ND. I sent ND something asking them if it is taking Santiago or having no peace with GS that they are decided about.

	23-07-2003 04:42									#20
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See here for more discussions whilst poly was down.

http://central.masterzen.net/index....t=0&#entry12049

You have to be registered at MZO and added to the GoW list to view forum.

We will have a chat with GS tonight hopefully. Lets see if they would be willing for peace even after Santiago.

	23-07-2003 06:24									#21
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Can we please send an immediate request to ND, for their MI to immediately head for Bilbao and destroy it.

We cant touch it, but ND does not seem to care at the moment.

	23-07-2003 06:46									#22
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I had registered as a GoW member but am no longer allowed access.

	23-07-2003 19:09									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Can we please send an immediate request to ND, for their MI to immediately head for Bilbao and destroy it. We cant touch it, but ND does not seem to care at the moment.

Yeah, I'm in contact with Darekill:

To DK

quote: >>Just some military matters. >> >>Would you please consult us to as where you are going to place you >>units? The Midievel infantry north of the mountain in our sector >>is on a tile that we might have moved a stack of riders on to.

From DK

quote: >I'm sorry about that maybe we shoud send maps wit hthe planed >movements. So this won't happen again. >btw. ghengis Farb asked me if i can send him the savegame too. I >just wanted to let you know that i didn't send him the last save. If >i shall send him a copy of the save's please tell me.

and to DK again

quote: We weren't planning to go there before Bilbao was gifted... so a map might not have helped. But, we have a request for that midievel infantry. Could you go to Bilbao and attack it so GS does not have it? Oh, and if Ghengis wants the save feel free to send it to him. I try to attach it in the forums as soon as I get it so everyone can have it... but I sometimes forget Thanks, Panzer32