23-07-2003 11:25									#1
	The battle begins: Leon has fallen Put an end to popups!

Thats right check out nd diplo hq for details.

It almost sounds as if they took santiago as well, but I can't tell precisely from that language.

Looks like toledo will be ours next turn.

The must have investigated the two cities, Z and L (they weren't at war yet, were they?) or perhaps they made a lucky guess.

	23-07-2003 11:47									#2
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They investigated, most likely. They DoW'd us to prevent us from doing the same.

	23-07-2003 11:48									#3
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Would it be wise to query them regarding Santiago and declaration of war? Or do we just wait.

	23-07-2003 11:57									#4
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We should wait. What do we gain?

I want to phsych them out. Shiber's message was perfect for that purpose. We don't give a fig what they did, for we will crush them surely in the end no matter which way they squirm.

	23-07-2003 12:37									#5
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Just make them wait, and see what they do when they hear nothing from us. Sounds antagonizing enough. Fine with me.

	23-07-2003 12:43									#6
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They did take Santiago (see the SPIN thread). Working out pretty well so far... GoW tiptoes around us and delays, and ND declares war.

Hope ND lost at least an Ansar or two. They went through 2 reg Pikes and an Elite Swordsman... and now RP's Horse should be able to take a shot at an Ansar.

	23-07-2003 12:48									#7
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Ah yes, apparently Shiber has a pm from ND. Will be interesting to see what that says.

So, we get a nice little bounce for them declaring war on us.

	23-07-2003 12:51									#8
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I want to phsych them out. Shiber's message was perfect for that purpose. We don't give a fig what they did, for we will crush them surely in the end no matter which way they squirm.

That's the right spirit. What ever we say, matters not. The worst case is, that we lost a city, which was not ours anyway.

Not the barking dogs are the dangerous ones. It's rather those, who run as fast as the wind and hunt down and kill their victim silently.

	23-07-2003 12:52									#9
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Probably not much if any of one. It should be pretty close to cancelling out the loss of the city. Of course it keeps ND from getting the happiness boost, so is worth it.

	23-07-2003 14:51									#10
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Will we have lost alot from our treasury?

	23-07-2003 15:28									#11
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And should we demand it back?

	23-07-2003 15:32									#12
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I think they'd get a few gold at most. We used most of what we had upgrading, and then it gives Gold/NumOfCities... which doesn't leave much.

	23-07-2003 15:39									#13
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We're about to go to war with these guys and we are thinking of demanding a few gold back? How about we take it back by recapturing Santiago?

On the good news front, their stack must be split. Only the Ansars could reach Leon, so the pikes and MI are presumably hanging around Zaragoza. If they are willing to divert their Ansars to Pamplona, then Zaragova is safe, and Pamplona probably will be too. They don't have enough troops to guarantee two victories, and probably can't guarantee one even if they do concentrate forces. It does stop RP stacking everything into Zaragoza though. It'd be nice to see RP's current troop information and what they know of ND's.

Can't say that I'm surprised that ND took the city though. It's exactly what I'd have done in the same situation (or in the scenario where Vox started gifting cities away before we took them).

Do ND really think we bought the city off RP, or are they just giving us an avenue to accept some placatory cash off them without having to say so in as many words? Not that it matters much - we are at war with them either way.

	23-07-2003 15:41									#14
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Is GoW at war with RP officially yet? If not, RP better declare war, as I'm sure GoW will spy on both Z and P and tell them which is the easier target. Who knows, maybe Vox would do it as well.

	23-07-2003 16:14									#15
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If when RP receives the turn, they will still be officially at war with GoW but GoW will already have units within their borders, then we should tell RP to declare war. They'll get the negative WW because GoW are inside their borders, and prevent GoW from investigating their cities any further.

	23-07-2003 16:38									#16
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No! let GoW see into Pamplona if it's still possible... then RP goes.. gifts us Toledo... we accept.. Pamplona gets a bunch more units... ND still 'sees' a handful of units in Pamplona through GoW, and attacks... and no more Ansars...

	23-07-2003 16:40									#17
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Shiber, nye tested this: they will not get negative WW when declaring war to GoW with units within their borders. What we saw with Vox was a redeclaration, where we were still getting a happiness boost at the end of the war (and no 20 turns peace in between).

ND attacking us? nice... and yes, GoW can be investigating cities for ND... but so can Lego and Vox. If we don't have an embassy with GoW (or if RP doesn't have one yet), we'd better establish one to see how much gold they have. Investigating of cities will cost about 80 gold a piece, and if GoW is low on cash they won't do it. Note that they mention in their last chat they were last after Vox, meaning they only make some 40 gpt for the moment... that's only half a city worth of investigation.

It's good to see this thing started, it will be very interesting to see how it turns out. I'm quite positive it will do us good, but we'll still have to be careful, and play well. Oh, and please, can some ambassador post a message to RP to ask for screenies (annotated if possible) the moment they get the save? We need joint battle plans if we want to succeed. Probably RP will ask for a chat anyway, but we should encourage them... essentially our 24h should be quite straigthforward once we(RP+GS) have dealt with RP's turn.

DeepO

	23-07-2003 16:41									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson No! let GoW see into Pamplona if it's still possible... then RP goes.. gifts us Toledo... we accept.. Pamplona gets a bunch more units... ND still 'sees' a handful of units in Pamplona through GoW, and attacks... and no more Ansars...

Ah you're right. I was getting the turn sequence reversed. Yes. Let them see what they want to see.

	23-07-2003 16:41									#19
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hey, good call, Aeson! If they are watching, they will know Toledo is stacked with defenders, though. And by now they will know about the teleportation trick we're using...

DeepO

	23-07-2003 17:10									#20
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Brilliant, Aeson. Not entirely fool-proof as DeepO pointed out, but if this works...

	23-07-2003 22:10									#21
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Looks like GoW is a couple of hours over the time limit. Are they waiting for an answer to them sitting in Bilbao's radius? Are they waiting on an answer from ND on the santiago money? were they hoping that poly would crash by now?

	23-07-2003 22:25									#22
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Dunno. ND was a 1/2 hour over themselves.

Methinks teams are beginning to realize, as we did, that during a war you gotta be sure (aw, geez, that rhymes).

-Arrian

	23-07-2003 23:04									#23
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Poly will be off-line this evening anyway, and before you start thinking bad thoughts, it has nothing to do with me but all with maintenance