23-07-2003 13:18									#1
	The Loss of Santiago and Leon Increase the size of your Attachments

ND has reported taking both of these cities in the public Forum. So ND made a DoW against GS.

It will cause us to lose Iron for one turn, until GS can trade it to us.

Apparently GoW is not going to attack Bilbao, a city that now belongs to GS.

Here's a chat I had with nye concerning the events with GoW and ND.

We also need to discuss whether or not to make available the save game for GS to look at. I think it would help us to have them have a look, in order to coordinate our next set of actions together.

Since GoW is going around Bilbao, we can also 'gift' Toledo to GS and have our troops transported to Pamplona. I'm not sure they would be there in case ND attacked on its turn or not, if I had to bet, I would say that our troops would not arrive until we got the save, but then again, if GS did an investigation of Pamplona right after they accepted Toledo, wouldn't all the units that were in Toledo show up in Pamplona? Anyways, stuff like this and the timing of it all are things we are working out for the ISDG.

quote: Session Start: Wed Jul 23 00:11:09 2003 Session Ident: notyoueit [00:11] BigFree- hey [00:11] BigFree- mye [00:11] BigFree- nye [00:11] notyoueit- hi [00:11] BigFree- did ND contact you guys [00:11] BigFree- they took Santiago and Leon, they reported [00:12] notyoueit- we heard. no contact. we sent them a note [00:12] BigFree- k [00:12] notyoueit- gow has been after us like a bad case of fleas though [00:12] BigFree- lol [00:12] BigFree- did they take Bilbao [00:12] notyoueit- i spent 3 or 4 hours last night in front of the bright lights with them having rubber hoses [00:13] BigFree- LOL [00:13] notyoueit- no. not yet. they are asking permission to cross [00:13] BigFree- ah [00:13] BigFree- HAHA [00:13] notyoueit- one moment [00:13] BigFree- sure [00:26] BigFree- don't forget about me nye [00:26] notyoueit- i will not. just chatting with trip about something important [00:26] BigFree- ok [00:31] notyoueit- anyways. anything else? [00:31] notyoueit- have you contacted opd? [00:32] notyoueit- we should have envoys or something, rather than ambassadors. at this point [00:32] notyoueit- close contact required [00:32] BigFree- no [00:32] BigFree- opd has not conatcted me [00:33] notyoueit- the m,ilitary situation looks good, and bad [00:33] BigFree- I agree [00:33] notyoueit- if gow move as they indicated [00:33] notyoueit- toledo is safe [00:33] BigFree- what did your 'note' entail exactly? [00:33] notyoueit- one se [00:33] notyoueit- sec [00:34] notyoueit- basically stuck our tounges out at them [00:34] BigFree- ok [00:35] notyoueit- We understand that these new steps may mean that a state of war between our two nations will become inevitable, and we are ready to face the consequences. But please, let us not allow any in-game wars to cloud our personal relations. Let us not hate, let us fight if we must, and share a drink in Valhalla, together. [00:35] notyoueit- we sared them to DoW [00:35] notyoueit- *dared [00:35] notyoueit- BigFree [00:36] BigFree- yo [00:36] notyoueit- there is something that rp prolly already suspects, but that you m=have to know [00:36] BigFree- ok [00:36] notyoueit- we did discuss joining gow and nd against you before we were approached by you [00:36] notyoueit- they approached us, actually [00:36] BigFree- I figured [00:37] notyoueit- gow was extremely anxious to not get on the wrong side of us [00:37] BigFree- of course [00:37] BigFree- who would? [00:37] notyoueit- i guess that can be seen on the map, with port isolation being so close, and us having so many boats [00:38] notyoueit- we listened. we told them what we would require at a minimum [00:38] notyoueit- but not many of us wanted to, to be honest. if you can believe that [00:41] BigFree- nye, was that note above to ND or GoW; the one where you dared them to declare war. [00:41] notyoueit- nd [00:41] BigFree- ah, ok, thats cleaer [00:42] notyoueit- we wanted them to DoW. [00:42] notyoueit- we get happy bonus, they do not [00:42] BigFree- right [00:42] notyoueit- their economy collapses sooner [00:42] BigFree- now our Iron is cutt off [00:42] notyoueit- unfortunately, they took leon [00:42] BigFree- yes [00:42] notyoueit- you get iron back from us, asap [00:43] BigFree- true, no big worry [00:43] notyoueit- well. there are some timing issues, but... [00:43] notyoueit- if you can transfer toledo this turn, then pamplona is more than safe [00:43] notyoueit- if pamplona and zaragoza hold. then we can win [00:44] notyoueit- more easily [00:44] BigFree- like we wont get it till turn after next [00:44] BigFree- the iron that is [00:44] BigFree- do you really think GoW will bypass Toledo as well? [00:44] notyoueit- no. our army will beat them to it. [00:44] BigFree- ah [00:44] BigFree- [00:44] notyoueit- if they move as they have indicated [00:45] BigFree- right, so we can see what we have when we get the save [00:45] notyoueit- we know what they intend to do, because they are asking permission to cross the border at bilbao [00:46] notyoueit- they are dithering. [00:46] notyoueit- yes, when you get the save, we need to look closely at tropps and timing [00:47] BigFree- hmm, I'm wonder if it would be allowed to send you our save so that you can look directly at it? [00:47] notyoueit- it would be allowed. the q is, do you want to do that? [00:47] notyoueit- we could be more help [00:47] notyoueit- if we were examining the situation directly [00:47] BigFree- I would check of course, but we plan to tell you everything anyways, IMO [00:47] notyoueit- but, it is up to rp [00:48] BigFree- I will bring it up [00:48] notyoueit- ok [00:48] BigFree- maybe keep this at the top level only [00:48] notyoueit- ok [00:48] notyoueit- i will not mention it on yet [00:48] BigFree- good [00:49] BigFree- not much to talk about till we get the save [00:49] notyoueit- true [00:49] BigFree- I wonder why GoW is holding it [00:49] notyoueit- we have discussed such things, but we have been in no hurry to push you [00:49] BigFree- about looking at the save? [00:49] notyoueit- i think they discuss whether to dow on us and snuff bilbao or not [00:50] notyoueit- re save and such, yes [00:50] notyoueit- it could be a good idea, but we do not want to be overbearing [00:50] BigFree- do you thinkg other teams would think it goes against the 'spirit' of thegame? [00:50] notyoueit- you guys stillbeing 'in it' and not some puppets is important [00:51] BigFree- true [00:51] notyoueit- spirit of the game? [00:51] notyoueit- i don;t believe so. [00:51] BigFree- me neither [00:51] notyoueit- we would not be spying [00:51] notyoueit- it is difficult enough to run a situation like this [00:51] BigFree- it is [00:52] notyoueit- time is important to the game as well, and we can give better advice quicker with a save to look at [00:52] BigFree- thats why I suggested it [00:52] notyoueit- ok [00:52] notyoueit- so, we will leave it for now, and you can talk to togas and dejon [00:52] BigFree- I implicitly trust GS and you especially [00:52] BigFree- ok [00:52] notyoueit- i apprecieate that, bf. i really do. [00:53] BigFree- you've earned it [00:53] BigFree- [00:53] notyoueit- now i am blushing [00:53] BigFree- HAHA [00:54] BigFree- talk to you later then [00:55] notyoueit- ok. i have to sack out [00:55] BigFree- me too Session Close: Wed Jul 23 00:56:07 2003

	24-07-2003 00:09									#2
	Re: The Loss of Santiago and Leon Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by BigFree We also need to discuss whether or not to make available the save game for GS to look at. I think it would help us to have them have a look, in order to coordinate our next set of actions together.

It goes in our best interest to let them see the save, so I would agree with this.

	24-07-2003 02:36									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I was thnking as the true story of teh fall of Santiago:
´´As old governor of Santiago, I had to go to the army to serve in teh armed forces as general. But the new governor I appointed said that he could not be forced to stay there undefended and wait, and as there was no way around it (we needed those unit to be loaded in the Invasion fleet), he used the paragraph eleven of the Vigo accord taht says that the city states have the right to secede if they wnat to do so, and that there is no way to prevent tehm to, not even force of arms... and so he pledged allegiance to the Egyptians;we have nothing to do with it.´´
Whaddaya guys think of it?

	24-07-2003 03:04									#4
	Support Apolyton

Given these events..we must asses the current battlefield situation. If we assume they lost two ansars in the attack on Leon. That means they have 8 left. Assuming (again) that they captured (and not razed) the cities they will have to keep some ansars in Leon at least until defensive units arrive, this will take 3 turns, to quell unhappiness. They wont launch another attack until their defensive units are in place and they have their full complement of ansars. I just dont see them launching an attack with 5-6 ansars on Our cap.

Defensive situation: Zaragoza will hold. We have more than enough units in here. Pamplona: Gifting toledo will give us better defenses here. All out attack next turn without more units (unlikely) and we will lose it. We MUST pillage 7-7 pamplona if at all possible..It will stop ND from reaching Pamplona in 1 turn. With a pillage and Zar defenses...we should be able to stall their initial attack.

	24-07-2003 05:49									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I agree with pillagin Pamplona 7-7

	24-07-2003 08:17									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Pillaging our own road does no good, ND can't use them anyways. Not until they have control over that tile can they have control of the road and thus it's benefits.