26-07-2003 12:21									#1
	Getting rather bored .... Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hi all,

Well i've been dabbling with Civ 3 ptw for a fair while playing various nations mostly around Monarch level.

WHat I find rather tediuos is the fact that although i'm keeping up in tech just about, the computer nations keep attackign me , embargoing me, are always anooyed or furious even though i've not harmed them.
What is most annoying though is the way they continuously all trade their civ advances around so i can never qeuit get in front in the tech race. I get to around industrial era all the time, which takes a while , then find I can't keep up or attack anyone cos they all have protection pacts etc etc.


Can anyone give some simple tips here cos its all getting a bit boring and repetitive. I dont particularly want to use a ' do this get this result ' tactic cos I find that not a challenge in skill at all realy just purely 'game mechanic beating' .

I'm not a gaming novice btw, played civ 2 etc loads and that was always a bit too easy , except on later levels where it cheated like a maniac ;-)

BTW playing China atm and getting close to the 'bugger this ' point again !

Cheers

Kevin

	26-07-2003 16:25									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

1. The key to keeping up or being slighly aheas in tech is to trade. Try and research techs that the AI doesn't. These will often be the less useful techs. If you have to trade, you don't get the advantage of having a useful tech first for long so why bother? If you can getter ahead later on, you'll want to sell techs for money. This will boost your research rate and slow down theirs. It's possible to keep up and eventually get ahead with an even or slightly worse economy than the AI easily.

Some times it seems to be that a psychological adjustment is needed to see that getting any tech first is enough to consider yourself to be keeping up in tech and being 1 tech ahead is a lead. It's not civ2.

2. As for the industrial era, sign lots of mutual protection pacts yourself and start a world war. You can be much smaller than the AI and still gain from this. Your superior focus should allow you to gain useful territory. When you've done this and your pacts run out, if you sign peace you should be able to easily out-research the AIs who will probably keep fighting in Communism.

3. If you want random comments on how to improve your playing style, post a save and the already circling vultures of the strategy forum will tear it apart.

	26-07-2003 19:10									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

drambuie, as Nor Me suggests, post a save.

In addition to the comment re researching techs that the AI civs do NOT (quick tip: don't research what the advisor suggests), I don't know if you are aware that we have been discussing a series of Apolyton University games, with specific lessons intended per difficulty level. It has been my intention that exactly the problem you describe will be addressed in the Monarch-level game, so hold onto your hat.

	26-07-2003 21:06									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

My preferred style of play puts me in the same position in regards to the civs all being annoyeed or worse with me after we get into the late middle ages or so.
This is because I do not trade enough with them and I will not have lots of troops and will have more land or at least more than most of them.
I will have had a few wars, many of which were very early and may not have even had combat.
The other thing that I suspect upsets them is I will not trade my maps, until I have all my land locked down.
I will hurry to make a culture border across as much land as I feel I can hold and must have. This prevents them from getting past that point and seeing the rest of the world.
Once all land is covered they must start coming for someone and that is often me. I do not discourage this as Iwant to bust a bunch of troops and take a few cities at that point. This coincides with getting to the point that I need more land to keep pace in research, as I am not going to get much from them.
This is at emperor, but Monarch is not all that different, except maybe the time I close the gap or in a rare case I will be in the lead.

	26-07-2003 21:19									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As to tips, it depends on what you want to correct.
If it getting to the point you are now talking about.
I think a save would be needed for that point to see if anything is out of line. It may not be, it could well be that your are just where you should be and in fact are ready to rock soon.
With Riders, you can get to a GA and grab some key wonders, while you crank out troops to annex land.
Me I love to be where you are, that is the point in the game where the fun starts. I get to punish the AI for its bad manners and Riders are excellent for that job.
This basically is what I just did with France. Used the Musket to trigger a GA just in time to lay down a beating on Korea and grab several Wonders including Adams. Commercial + Adams means no more research issues. I got the ToE and will not be looking back.
Nearly all civs are at war with me, and most are close at hand so I used Leos to upgrade to infantry and laugh at the attempts to attack my cities, while Calv armies take down cities and units caught in the open.
No one had replaceable parts as I timed the ToE to get it.

	27-07-2003 20:06									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

You don't need to be ahead of the AI's in the techrace. It is actually a good strategy to stay behind them, and "follow" along the tech tree. As they research tech's, and trade them around, the the prices for you to research go down. This allows you to stay relatively close techwise, and build up a large amount of cash, so if you ever need a tech ASAP, then you should be able to afford to run science @ max for the 4 turns required to get it.

	28-07-2003 17:03									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Are you behind in the early game? If so ...

Research choices at the start of the game, early contact + trading, adequate roads and city size management can all help to assure early parity or even superiority in tech - depending on diffculty level.

Starting techs can be used as a basis for a strategy : if you play with cultural linkage you might be able to guess which techs your neighbours start with, especially by using F11 on turn two. Don't research these if you want a unique tech. OTOH, if you meet a bunch of civs with Bronze Working, you can research this cheaply - (slipstreaming) - as trickey says above. It's debatable though, how slipstreaming compares with being the first to market with new tech. Most players, it seems, opt for the latter.

Establishing early contact and regularly checking for trading options - each turn for peace-play at Emp level - helps stay in 'the loop'. There's no substitute for experience on the trading screen - learning relative tech values and the devaluation rate, AI research priorities, when to trade and who to trade with first when you have a new tech. The best general advice is to shop around, and shop regularly. Detailed examples of 'swinging merchant tricks' are recorded on this forum; I or others can direct you if required.

Research comes from gold, which comes from roads, rivers and bonus tiles. The less early buildings you have, the more road, river and bonus tiles being worked, the lower the military support costs, and the lower your corruption, the faster your research can go. Commercial civs and tight build patterns help here.

An alternative to much of the above is to play an aggressive warring strategy and extort techs out of rivals. Many a word has been devoted to this art elsewhere on this forum. I break with forum protocul here by not describing this playstyle as 'warmongering', as the playstyle involves making war, not selling it. Fishmongers sell fish, warmongers sell war.

If you find yourself slipping back in the middle ages, it might be that your military costs are too high for your civ's capacity after switching from despotism into monarchy or republic.

In the later game, selling techs for GPT speeds your research and breaks theirs, as others have pointed out. The Theory of Evolution wonder is basically check-mate for an experienced player in Monarch level SP.

One sure road to Sufficient Power and beyond in Civ 3 is to establish, by war or peace, a dual-core civ where the Forbidden Palace offers a second core of productive cities. From this platform you can do anything.


(typo edited)

	30-07-2003 00:25									#8
	Suffering from ads?

Thanks for all the replies ....... i've attached a save game for your comments. As you can see i've got the heroic epic and academy , and a spare leader.

Fire away

Cheers

Attachment: mao of the chinese, 1470 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	30-07-2003 06:18									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Man I just lost a rather long post on this game and I am so bummed.

I will try to get some of it in here.

Tiles---- too many irrigated ones. Look at Shanghai and see it has 5 extra food. It is size 12 and can not use the food and 5 tiles could have been mined instead. You are only getting 15 shields in this city.

Workers -- not enough and they are doing nothing. I am guessing you paln to use them to make RR soon, but you neeed road and mines in the mean time.
You only have few native workers and that is painful for an industious civ.

	30-07-2003 06:25									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Research --- I would have skipped many of the middle age techs that do not lead to the next age.
Printing Press/Music/Demo/Monarchy.
I presume you intend to drop the slider down to 40% to save a ton of money and still get the tech next turn.

Troops --- need many upgraded and you have the money. Playing China I would not make very many foot soldiers in the early game. I would make horses, then Riders and then calvs.

Beijing is making an Army? You have a leader that could be used. I know you are hlding it for a wonder, but that is too far away. It is likely that you will not get a shot at the ToE and the AI has already got Nationalism/Steam/Medicine/ It will be research Elec now and then Scientific Method.
You could try to trade for some of those tecs, but it is doubtful.
Also the city need more mines.

	30-07-2003 06:28									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

MPP with France? I a guessing you wanted to avoid another fight here. The problem is that France is way out of the way and will not be any help. Egpt would make more sense as they buffer you from all the other civs.
France would e my target as they look shaky. Especially if they already had their GA. This would let you consolidate your lands. I would drop the hammer after that on the two green towns.

You will have a lot of trouble getting RR up with the samll work force, that is if you have coal. If yo do not, then it is will be a rough game.

	30-07-2003 08:16									#12
	Tired of ads?

I forgot to mention the reason I skip Monarchy and Demo is that I will head for Republic and stay there the whole game.