28-07-2003 19:19									#31
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I was under the impression that we are skipping Bilbao... so that they land troops in the south not the north I guess.

Anyways, I would attack Bilbao too

	28-07-2003 19:27									#32
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Yep I know we were supposed to skip it.

But I want to take it now....to show that we are not bluffing.

Plus, it is too dangerous allowing them a port city. They can land & attack in the same turn.

	28-07-2003 19:36									#33
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I say take both Toledo and Bilboa. Let's make them haul their troops to Madrid and Barcelona.

	28-07-2003 19:40									#34
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We dont think we can take Toledo this round ??

Plus.. it does not give them an option to back down.

Hmmm...
If we can take both...then do it... but I would give GS a full 24 hours to offer up an alternative...maybe they will gift it to us ??
Maybe they have 20 knights in south Whoreplay now..perhaps they will attack RP for us for a free city ??

Who knows... just give them time to respond. But I agree to take both cities ASAP

	28-07-2003 19:45									#35
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They have an NAP with RP, they will not attack RP.

They already answered saying we cannot so much as set foot inside their border and insulted us for not having even attacked RP.

Take Toledo, Bilbao if possible. Let's see what Madrid looks like after RP gifts it to GS by asking Vox to investigate it. I want Madrid, and I want all GS units off of Bob.If it were possible, I would say start raiding Estonia, but I will bet GS has wall of units around it's boarder, preventing naval assaults.

	28-07-2003 19:45									#36
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They've had over 24 hours and there only response has been BS while they reinforce their cities and march troops up to Toledo with its walls.

	28-07-2003 20:01									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel We dont think we can take Toledo this round ??

because we can't. Next turn, we will be able to take both but not this turn. This turn we can only take Bilbao if need be.

	28-07-2003 20:58									#38
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Then we hound them about their dishonor, and hopefully anger them enough to do something stupid until we "chastise" them more appropriately.

Still once they start moving troops onto Bob, it might be a splendid opportunity to land an invading force of Riders on Estonia to pillage all the improvements around their cities and capture/disband their workers and cities.

	28-07-2003 22:27									#39
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I also want to take both Bilbao this turn and Toledo the next. This is the last straw... such a flagrant violation of the NAP MUST be made public but we must lure them into it.

I think we should send them another message, an even stronger worded statement and give them 12 hours to reply. If not, we publically hound their honor code and ridicule them in public.

	28-07-2003 22:35									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I also want to take both Bilbao this turn and Toledo the next. This is the last straw... such a flagrant violation of the NAP MUST be made public but we must lure them into it. I think we should send them another message, an even stronger worded statement and give them 12 hours to reply. If not, we publically hound their honor code and ridicule them in public.

I think we should take Bilbao and Toledo simulataneously so as they may think we can still be pacified and might actually try to honor something.

	29-07-2003 03:46									#41
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Gentlemen,

If we made the public announcement 2 turns ago, we could of been facing 2 undefended cities this round.
While we keep screwing around diplomatically with GS, they keep shipping troops over.

We must be a complete joke to those guys. They think we are scared of them, and are unwilling to go to war with them.

I am pleading with my team... make the announcement, and send a response back to GS that tells them what lengths we are willing to go to to.

I remind us all we used this once before when Vox landed a settler on our continent. We had 1 horseman in the area, Vox had 3 immortals. We told them in clear terms, that they disband/gift us the city, or their will be war.... Vox caved in.

I dont think GS will do the same... but the tactics must remain the same.

The longer we wait... the bigger bombshell we have to drop.

I am not going to rewrite what I think should be said...but.. how about this....

While GS remains on our continent, the nations of ND & GoW will approach Vox & Lego with the intention of agreeing to a tech embargo against the Whoreplay/GS team. This embargo will continue for the duration of the game, until a UN can be built, where all of our nations will Vote for Lego.

It would be great to get Lego & Vox to agree to this now...but we can always make the threat.


Please Please Please [b]stop[b] trying to out negotiate GS. They are just buying time so they can ship the bulk of their troops to Bob.

Tale Bilbao this turn. and if we can (not sure if we have the movement to do so) invade Toledo. if we get lucky with our first riders, then pile everyone in.
If GS have 6 knights.. and we only just get the citywith our last rider...then raze it to the ground.

Then ask ND what they want to do ?
Raze whatever holding they have got so far, retreat home and use our GA's peacefully ?

Or slog it out ?

	29-07-2003 03:48									#42
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I don't think were negotiating with GS anymore; were taking Bilbao this turn I thought.

About making a public announcement, I am neutral. Master Zen?

	29-07-2003 04:14									#43
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Just make sure it's a bombshell for GS.

Something that is really going to rock them.

But give them an out ...
ie get off bob, and we can lift the embargo.

	29-07-2003 04:21									#44
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The only announcement I think we should use in the main forum is UnOrthO's

	29-07-2003 04:23									#45
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If I get no other comments in the next hour and a half I am sending GS the proposed response:

Proposed Response:

quote: There is no Non Agression Pact, you have already violated it by engaging in hostile activity against us. Your attempts to put words in our mouth is a testement to how well Roleplay is controlling you. No longer do you honor your agreements but attempt to disguise the breaking of them with flowering words. To take cities right before we attack them, not all at once mind you just cities we prepare to attack, and then demand our troops withdraw is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. Slowing down and detouring our troops is HOSTILE ACTIVITY, Giving Inchon to Roleplay to move vast numbers of troops to invade Bob is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. Landing large numbers of troops on Bob with your fleet is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. You have dishonored the NAP not once, but repeatedly, and left us with NO OTHER COURSE FOR SURVIVAL but to defend ourselves and the worthless paper you refuse to honor. GhengisFarb, Ambassador to GS.

	29-07-2003 04:47									#46
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My issue with the above ... is that we are not making any demands of them. All we are doing is playground name calling.

What will be their response ??? ...

If I was on GS...and saw that we still have not attacked any of my cities...and therefore assume GoW is not willing to break the NAP... or GoW is scared of me..

Then I would say ...

Blah Blah Blah .. we disagree .. you are wrong .. get out of our territory or else .. delay delay delay ... we are not happy .. we have done nothing wrong ...



GF & my team.

Demand action from GS, and tell them the consequenses of not meeting out demands.

We are razing Bilbao.
We will attack Toledo.
We will go to war over this issue.
We will do a UN vote against you
We will do a trade embargo.

GS's only option is to disband the cities and return home.

End of story.

	29-07-2003 06:23									#47
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That's what they want though. They want us to attack them so they can say we broke the NAP. If we say that they will just try to urge us to do it, and prepare their propaganda to claim we broke the NAP.

He He He. Within two minutes after I sent it to nye, I saw that he had posted in their private forum.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 29-07-2003 at 06:35

	29-07-2003 06:44									#48
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I dont think anything is going to stop them now that they have their army is on Bob.

Are we going to sit back and let them pummel ND ?

The NAP is dead.
They broke it by accepting cities we were going to take, and then refusing us passage through them.
We broke it by trespassing and soon to be razing Bilbao.

It's a moot point. We have lost our chance to make the breaking of the NAP a big deal.

They have troops in position now.. they will not back down by us calling them poo poo heads & NAP breakers. Because it is their perception, that they did not break it.

If they have 1 knight in Toledo...then they could have a dozen knights.


I am rambling...

We are building up to a war with GS. NAP breaking is irrelevent now that GS has troops in position.
Lets just bring it to a head and send in our demands.

	29-07-2003 06:51									#49
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quickie chat with NYE:

nye> hi
Panzer32> hi there
nye> we are wondering if gf is communicating gow's true position?
Panzer32> he is our official ambassador
Panzer32> therefore, yes, he is
nye> There is no Non Agression Pact, you have already violated it by engaging in hostile activity against us. Your attempts to put words in our mouth is a testament to how well Roleplay is controlling you. No longer do you honor your agreements but attempt to disguise the breaking of them with flowering words.
nye> so, you are breaking the nap?
Panzer32> I believe that says that you have
nye> well, that is why i am talking to you
nye> how is our having got cities first violating any agreement between us?
Panzer32> Lets say GoW knows the NAP is over
nye> yes. i guess you do, if you say so.
nye> an agreement only lasts until someone breaks it
Panzer32> the NAP calls for no "hostile activity" between us
Panzer32> we believe GS has been acting hostile towards us
nye> what is hostile about our having obtained citiies through diplomacy?
nye> you may colour it any way you wish, we are not the ones with stacks parked in your territory, making demands
Panzer32> those cities were obviously gifted to stop us from taking them and/or to block us. The blocking thing is even more prevalent because you granted us no ROP
nye> again, how is our gaining cities diplomatically hostile to gow? what if we landed and beat you to them with troops?
nye> it all matters little.
nye> if gow intends to attack, so be it
Panzer32> the RoP issue was vital; we felt you were 'blocking'
Panzer32> ok
nye> ok. we have no rop
Panzer32> correct
nye> and we are serious that our land is not somnething for foreign tropps to drop in on anytime they feel like it
nye> have we ever done that to gow?
nye> at any rate. i suppose the die is cast
nye> good luck
nye> many will go to valhalla
nye> it will be glorious
Panzer32> bye for now!
nye> bye

	29-07-2003 08:49									#50
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HE we have already decided to help nd and defeat GS. I do understand your frustration, but also understand the idea that if we could have kept gs out as long as possible it would have been better. We will soon fight them and hopefully can win. No matter what though it seems the early part will be in the South. For a matter of fact we will probably bear the brunt of GS attacks until Nd wins out in the east and they will win. The key is for us to damage the GS forces(which are vulnerable due to distance and support) which are here and eliminate possible routes for Gs, until nd can hook up with us. First we need to ascertain the dispostion of Gs forces. I suspect a small to medium force but if it is large we will have to play a manuevering game against them. But remember they must protect infrastrure and try to engage us in favorable conditions. We on the other hand can pillage and then return to mountains to defend with ease and also have 3-2 movement points.
I see Toldeo as very important as the mountains and the city itself act as a valve limiting motion n-s on the continent from the SE cities. Of course it is possible they just threw together a force of less than 5 and need it to hold until the big force arrives. If that is the case we need to overwhelm it and move quickly S.
Aggie

	29-07-2003 09:44									#51
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Oh.. dont get me wrong .. I was all for using the NAP to against GS so they could not attack us.

But I think the time is over.

Bilbao is an invasion point.
Toledo already has GS units in it.

We need to start throwing some weight around. Make GS think twice before accpting any more cities or sending over any more units.

The GS mindset will be...
Get a foothold on Bob at all costs.
With RP's help, we can hold ND.
GoW cant attack us.
Once we have established ourselves on Bob. we can either choose to dominate the continent or take on Lego.

I simply think that by dropping a bombshell early, they may reconsider their plan. Negotiate even.

The longer we do this name calling thing..."you broke the NAP ..no you did ..." the more troops GS will ship over, and the more confident they will feel about defeating us.

I dont want them to have any confidence at all.

	29-07-2003 10:42									#52
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That's why Bilbao will be toast this turn and Toledo the next