28-07-2003 04:51									#31
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We should move the 3 Knights into Toledo so they can fortify next turn. ND's single Med Inf isn't worth dropping our defense odds for those three Knights from 67% to 60% if GoW decides to attack.

	28-07-2003 04:54									#32
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Also, how about rushing out a Worker (or perhaps even a Settler) from Toledo?

	28-07-2003 04:55									#33
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Yeah, I think we can worry about that MI after the riders are dispatched. Maybe he is where the riders want to be.

OTOH, we could take him out soon, thinking that war with GoW won't start for another 2 turns. That way, ND won't know when we are coming for them.

	28-07-2003 05:07									#34
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If ND sees knights in Toledo, they'll likely go after Bilbao instead, and that would be a lot harder to stop than an attack on Toledo. So the question is, how much is improving our odds of hanging onto Bilbao worth to us.

Regarding rushing a worker or settler in Toledo, I'd rather wait. Right now we're running a three-food surplus, and we'd actually lose 1gpt of income (from 4 to 3 after corruption) if we reduce the population in addition to the cost of the rush itself, so there's no need to be in a hurry.

	28-07-2003 05:19									#35
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I'd say the improved odds on the Knights is more important than Bilbao. Bilbao is gone if GoW decides to attack, and isn't worth anything near a Knight to our cause at this point. 7% x 3 Knights would be worth roughly a third of a Knight. Whether it actually makes a difference or not is up to the RNG of course.

	28-07-2003 07:24									#36
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Nine knights, not three. The lead units of our second wave can unload in our new city and barely make it into Toledo in the same turn.

Ohhh, yeah... the tide turns.

	28-07-2003 08:48									#37
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What do people think of using our latest settler to build a city at Dissidentville 6-6 next turn? Long-term, we may want to disband that city and leave the others as they are with an eye toward picking up Sanitation from RP or Lego, or we could but in the meantime, it would be another place to produce troops. (The more I think about it, the more I doubt that we'll want to build down Dissidentville from troop-production mode just to move it one tile.)

	28-07-2003 09:39									#38
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I'm going ahead and upgrade our last regular WC in the south and Grog on Wheels to knights unless someone objects in the next few minutes.

Last edited by nbarclay on 28-07-2003 at 09:44

	28-07-2003 09:48									#39
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Messages to ND and GoW can be sent anytime.

	28-07-2003 09:56									#40
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If GoW looks like they're going to back down from fighting us, I think we need to run a bluff in Toledo with just a couple pikes and maybe a MedInf and move the bulk of our forces to Pamplona 9, and then plan on hitting Leon the turn after that, at least unless ND loses a large percentage of its Ansars fighting for Zaragoza. We're going to have to free up enough of the RP forces ND has tied down right now for RP to be able to put up a fight against GoW.

	28-07-2003 09:59									#41
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I don't think it is safe to assume that GoW will not attack us. I have a feeling, but I do not know if I would bet Toledo and newMadrid on it.

Moving all to Toledo 2 2 works.

	28-07-2003 09:59									#42
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Do you want me to send the GoW one, or should one of our ambassadors do it? I'm thinking it would be better to have an ambassador (or you, NYE) actually send the message, but I'll send it if you want me to.

	28-07-2003 10:03									#43
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I can send the messages.

	28-07-2003 10:04									#44
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Just to be clear, I was thinking ahead to next turn. Right now I have three knights in Toledo and most of our forces at Toledo 2-2. From there, they can reach either Toledo or Pamplona 9 next turn. (If we have our knights at Pamplona 9, I'd like to have some pikes and cats there to protect them in case ND tries to strike at Pamplona and decides our knights are a better target.) But if GoW is in striking distance of Toledo, we need to focus our forces on protecting it.

	28-07-2003 10:25									#45
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Knights showing in Toledo may very well drive GoW off. That is good. For next turn? I think that if GoW do not back down it is war, and we better act like it.

	28-07-2003 10:37									#46
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If GoW even finds out about the knights. To find out, one of the following would have to happen.

1) ND tells them.
2) ND vacates the mountain and GoW pulls back to it.
3) GoW moves at least one knight into position to attack Toledo instead of heeding our warning.

	28-07-2003 10:38									#47
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ND will tell them.

	28-07-2003 11:17									#48
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Turn and shots sent.

	28-07-2003 11:22									#49
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

By the way, next turn, we should be loading three knights and either a pike or a vet MedInf (probably a pike) into the two galleys due to load.

	28-07-2003 17:39									#50
	Got spare money?

Yeah, more pikes.

Good job, everyone. For the record, I still think GoW will break the NAP. It's just a question of when.

Quick question, Nathan - when will we finish the Great Wall? I'm curious as to whether or not we'll have the effects before GoW can manuever into position to attack Toledo.

-Arrian

p.s. We're SURE that the GWs effects are global, not continental, right?

	28-07-2003 17:54									#51
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GoW will break the NAP once there is something to be gained from doing so. They didn't take Bilbao simply because the NAP is worth something, and Bilbao is worth essentially nothing - they autoraze it, so it doesn't gain them anything, and they know we will loudly cry that they have violated a NAP in the public forum - and regardless of how justified they feel doing it, they know that it will still hurt their reputation.

Now however they have no cities to attack apart from ours, and Toledo and New Madrid are targets they want to have. Toledo alone is enough of an incentive for them to break the NAP, and now that it is obvious that any city that they threatenm is going to come to us, they can either give up and go home, or break the NAP at the earliest convenient moment. So unless they are going to break their treaty and backstab ND, GoW are going to attack Toledo as soon as they possibly can.

	28-07-2003 18:02									#52
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Three turns to the Great Wall. (The cost is the same as the university I'm using as a prebuild, so you can get the time left from the screenshots.)

	28-07-2003 18:07									#53
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Edit: nevermind, x-posted with Nathan.

	28-07-2003 18:21									#54
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indeed... Bilbao is of no use to them, as long as it autorazes. Which is why we should keep it at size 1... in case the food box is almost full, set the citizen to a taxman or something, to void growing to size 2.

DeepO

	28-07-2003 18:24									#55
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Good thinking

	28-07-2003 18:27									#56
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So if they moved their Rider stack asap toward Toledo to attack it, they could get there and hit it before the GW is done? That's too bad.

I agree with DeepO, let's not allow Bilbao to grow. I doubt it's near growing, though, since the foodbox should be empty when the city was gifted. It would take 10 turns to fill.

-Arrian

	28-07-2003 18:49									#57
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At the current rate Bilbao would grow in 7 turns.

	28-07-2003 18:52									#58
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quote: What do people think of using our latest settler to build a city at Dissidentville 6-6 next turn?

I'd prefer 662, as it puts the city at a distance 1.5 closer to the FP, shares Blizzard's OCN, and gives access to the Mountain at Blizzard 44, which we wouldn't be able to use otherwise.

	28-07-2003 22:24									#59
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euh, was it proposed before to build a worker in NM? that would become our worker, which could help RP out at double speed... I'm not sure what it will do to shield output once we give it back, though

DeepO

	28-07-2003 22:28									#60
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and something else: did the galley in Wittlich scout the GoW shores? Moving it 7733 or 4466 gives us a bit of view of their territory, to see if reinforcements are underway...

DeepO