26-07-2003 21:39									#1
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What's our best-laid plan for this turn?

	26-07-2003 21:57									#2
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The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley


We wait for RP to get the turn, we survey the damage and plot the ultimate demise of our foes. We prepare for the worst, Zaragosa or pamplona falling. What will we do? We land the settler near New Madrid (will new madrid be in our hands this turn as well?) and disembark. From there we can enter toledo with our knights the next turn or be adjancent to Pamplona.

Stay the course for now. Build forces, ferry over, land. Next turn is when we must decide to head northwards with the bulk follow the sun to the cause of the rot in this land. 3 turns to the great wall? We build a wall in toledo and bilbao possibly.

The machine is already in motion. Now we ride it to its end. Now we are at the whims of GoW. They are in control now, do they attack us? RP? ND? A large standing army, itching to have a golden age, nowhere to go, bearers of grudges. We build a defense on the East whilst RP dispatches the barbarians to the west. When we are secure, soon, then we can either fight alongside the spaniards or counter in the soft east of the Demogyptians.

	26-07-2003 22:23									#3
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RP has the save... some intel would be nice.

	27-07-2003 23:05									#4
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Isabella offers: Monarchy, NM, 79g, WM, Ivory. Accepting.

	27-07-2003 23:06									#5
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The harbor in Monsoon is ready. We can start building vet galleys, as well as selling the one in Wittlich if we decide to use the north as a warriors farm.

	27-07-2003 23:08									#6
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Toledo has starved down to 5 pop, but reshuffling WF with NM, we can put it out of its misery and into slow growth, while NM stagnates.

	27-07-2003 23:15									#7
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In the mean time, GoW has a stack of riders in Bilbao4 (14, vets and one elite). One vet ND medinf on the mountain 89 of Toledo. If I'm counting correctly, if they advance toward Toledo then we can meet them in the city with 4 fortified pikeman (vets and one elite), and attack with 4 cats, 3 knights and 3 medinfs.

	27-07-2003 23:17									#8
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Hopefully GoW won't be clever enough to move their riders to the mountains outside Toledo instead of to the open outside Toledo (advancing in a straight line).

	27-07-2003 23:23									#9
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Anyone feeling like rushing a vet pike for 112 gold in Toledo?

	27-07-2003 23:34									#10
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Does Toledo have walls?

	28-07-2003 01:06									#11
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Walls and barracks.

If GoW wants to attack us, their logical move would be to Toledo 6-9. From there, they could attack both Toledo and Bilbao, and victorious units in the Toledo attack could move back onto the mountain (and out of range for slow-movers) if the effort to take the city fails.

I assume we want to move all our newly landed units into position to defend Toledo? I'm thinking of keeping our knights on the far side of the mountains in the hope that ND's MedInf will move into position to try to take our big "undefended" city.

	28-07-2003 01:14									#12
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I sent out a screenshot of the area in question for the benefit of those who don't receive or don't want to open up the turn.

	28-07-2003 01:17									#13
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I don't see any point in shifting food from New Madrid to Toledo since we're planning to give New Madrid back, at which time Toledo's food problems will return. Better to keep New Madrid growing quickly so RP can get extra production out of it sooner.

	28-07-2003 01:19									#14
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If they first take Bilbao, they can move 342, and end their turn on a mountain next to Toledo.

I think we should indeed inforce Toledo, but if possible block their access to the hill 3 of where they are now. We can demand them to leave, but that would not make it possible for them to get into the jungle between Toledo and NM without attacking us. We should at all costs try to avoid that we have to be the ones declaring war, even if that costs us a unit

DeepO

	28-07-2003 01:20									#15
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Erghh... we can't block that hill in time. Never mind then

DeepO

	28-07-2003 01:22									#16
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food to Toledo: we're going to hold NM for as long as the RP workers don't finish the road, right? In that case, we could build e.g. a small reserve, to keep the loss in pop as small as possible.

But yes, it doesn't help much, and it will help NM later...

DeepO

	28-07-2003 01:24									#17
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How many galleys do we have in the north? one? How long before we can get another one or two? I think we should prepare to move against PoI and other northern GoW cities.

	28-07-2003 01:32									#18
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NM can't grow anyway until we have to give it back, and when you gift a city all the boxes turn empty. We might as well put NM on zero growth mode while stockpiling some food in Toledo.

	28-07-2003 02:00									#19
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Good catch, Shiber. I went ahead and switched the tiles. If nothing else, these are RP cities, and the roleplay angle implies the undesirability of seeing people starve.

I don't want to hold New Madrid any longer than we have to to build our city. (Has anyone run a test on whether you can build a city in the territory of a civ you have a ROP with without declaring war?) To take advantage of the new road RP is building, we'd have to (1) hold Toledo longer, which results in less production than in RP's hands and (2) spend a settler (worth a pike and two pop points) to build another city at NM 6-9. And all we'd get for that is being able to land troops a single tile closer to the war zone. I don't think it's worth it.

	28-07-2003 02:18									#20
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Just tested. Building a city in land of ROP partner is an act of war.

	28-07-2003 02:23									#21
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Is vulture around?

What are the odds for 4 pike, 3 knights, and 3 MI, stacked with 4 cats in a town on grass with walls holding out vs 14 riders?

	28-07-2003 02:25									#22
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(also note that one of our pikes is elite, and one of GoW's riders is elite as well)

	28-07-2003 02:29									#23
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That combat goes to us 69.2% of the time.

	28-07-2003 02:33									#24
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How does the timing of the great wall figure in? If they waste another turn or two before moving closer to toledo....

I think there's what, 3 turns left on it?

	28-07-2003 02:34									#25
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Yes, 3 turns. Too late for Toledo, I suspect.

	28-07-2003 02:36									#26
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Nine knights, not three. The lead units of our second wave can unload in our new city and barely make it into Toledo in the same turn.

	28-07-2003 02:38									#27
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As my grand-pappy used to say, 'kewl!'

Toledo is indeed safe. Perhaps a little drenched in blood, but safe.

	28-07-2003 02:53									#28
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That's very good news Nathan!

	28-07-2003 03:53									#30
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We should use the tile 2 2 of Toledo for the target this turn. The tile 9 of there could be spotted by GoW if they move as DeepO suggested they may.