27-07-2003 16:52									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Asher IBM and Apple have been heavily optimizing the GCC compiler for the G5 for a long time now. Intel optimizes its own Intel compiler rather than GCC. So Apple saw this, thought it'd make a brilliant marketing move -- we can compile both using the same compiler, because 99.9% of people won't know that GCC sucks for Pentium 4 code. But just to be safe, they disabled SSE2 (which is a huge performance booster, akin to the G5's AltiVec) because they claimed it reduced performance (bullshit). p://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/res2003q3/cpu2000-20030616-02265.html">1205

Just by the way, there's an effort to add support for autovectorization in gcc with SSA for Trees (Tree-SSA is expected to be merged in in 3.5). This means that gcc will be able to use vector extension optimizations even if they haven't been explicitly coded in. icc already does this. Intel's engineers probably know their own stuff better than outsiders, so if they aren't going to help the gcc folks, I don't think gcc will be able to reach the speeds of icc on Intel's stuff. Not to mention that compiler development is rather slowish - SSE2 wasn't even supported in gcc before 3.3 (which isn't considered stable enough for general use by most distros yet), and one can expect to wait at least a year for 3.5... perhaps even longer for autovectorization. Still, the point is, gcc is going to produce faster code than it does now...

	28-07-2003 00:13									#32
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Drake: That Apple interview isn't the "other side of the story" -- it's the exact same one on their website.

They crippled the P4 so they could score better in (3/4) of the benchmarks, then claimed they had the fastest personal computer.

Anyone with a f*cking clue can realize Apple's sleight of hand -- after all, they've been doing it for as long as I can remember.

	28-07-2003 00:16									#33
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I don't get these kinds of wars... processor clock speeds aren't the be all/end all of computer performance. All things being equal, faster clock speeds are good... but it certainly isn't worth buying the newest top of the line processor.

	28-07-2003 00:17									#34
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I was under the impression that it would indeed be ****ing fast, but it would also be ****ing expensive. Now, off to the Research!

	28-07-2003 00:19									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I don't get these kinds of wars... processor clock speeds aren't the be all/end all of computer performance. All things being equal, faster clock speeds are good... but it certainly isn't worth buying the newest top of the line processor.

But what if you have money to burn, and that obsolete 6 month old laptop, you're using just isn't performing enough to warrant waiting another year before building an utterly ridiculously high powered desktop?

	28-07-2003 00:21									#36
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quote: But what if you have money to burn, and that obsolete 6 month old laptop, you're using just isn't performing enough to warrant waiting another year before building an utterly ridiculously high powered desktop?

Well duh, if you are rich or something, yeah it doesn't matter. But for most people, money doesn't grow on trees.

	28-07-2003 00:24									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Well duh, if you are rich or something, yeah it doesn't matter. But for most people, money doesn't grow on trees.

When you have few expenses, you don't have to make much to have money to burn

	28-07-2003 00:25									#38
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The PowerMac is actually a workstation, and they're targetted for the workstation market.

And workstations do need lots of power.

	28-07-2003 02:08									#39
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apple was MUCH further behind in 1995. Still, it's still got a slower processer than PCs, but we're catching up.

	28-07-2003 02:10									#40
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 apple was MUCH further behind in 1995. Still, it's still got a slower processer than PCs, but we're catching up.

That's BS. Looking how Apple has gone in the past ten years, I would say otherwise.

	28-07-2003 02:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Yeah I just found this site: http://www.aceshardware.com/read_news.jsp?id=75000384 "Perhaps the biggest threat to Apple's performance claims is not compilers, but time. The Power Mac G5s are scheduled to ship in August, but Intel has already introduced the 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 this week, while both Athlon 64 and Prescott are on the horizon. The true performance test will lie in a wide array of application-level benchmarks, affording some perspective to users for how well the applications they use will perform."

This subject has been done to death. For once I agree with you, Fez. I spent ages trying to convince people of the bolded portion of your quote.

Common sense though isn't it.

	28-07-2003 02:12									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon This subject has been done to death. For once I agree with you, Fez. I spent ages trying to convince people of the bolded portion of your quote. Common sense though isn't it.

I hate to break this to you, but I am not agreeing with you. Apple won't succeed and suffer another failure. That is my view on this issue.

	28-07-2003 02:14									#43
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Suffer another failure? Yeah, the imac was a HUGE failure.

"Looking how Apple has gone in the past ten years, I would say otherwise."

Have you been a mac user for the past ten years? No? Well I have, and speaking from that perspective, I must say that living as a mac user has never been better.

	28-07-2003 02:17									#44
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Suffer another failure? Yeah, the imac was a HUGE failure.

Explain why Apple's market share has done nothing but dwindled?

quote: Have you been a mac user for the past ten years? No? Well I have, and speaking from that perspective, I must say that living as a mac user has never been better.

Actually somebody I know has. They just converted to a Pentium 4. Being a PC (AMD) user is better than being a Mac User. Primarily for me it has to do with how many applications and games are on each. Also I can upgrade my computer more easily than you can. Plus the PC is much faster than a Mac.

Those are my reasons for being a PC user and why the PC is better.

	28-07-2003 02:17									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I hate to break this to you, but I am not agreeing with you. Apple won't succeed and suffer another failure. That is my view on this issue.

Why did you post that quote then. I spent ages arguing that real world performance with commonly used apps is what matters. That's all I'm agreeing with (similarly almost every writer on the topic agreed with me).

Anyway, why bother starting another flame war.

	28-07-2003 02:20									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Why did you post that quote then. I spent ages arguing that real world performance with commonly used apps is what matters. That's all I'm agreeing with (similarly almost every writer on the topic agreed with me). Anyway, why bother starting another flame war.

Gotta quote everything, even if it is an opinion.

But what it boils down to, is the PC is faster than the Mac. That is the point that has to be made. Even with the G5, Apple's market share will continue to dwindle.

	28-07-2003 02:29									#47
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Rebels choose Apple. Sycophants choose PC.

	28-07-2003 02:31									#48
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In speed, yes, but in ease of use, I always get much more done, faster, on my mac. It just fits my style. I find it immensely intuitive and user-friendly. I just don't like using PCs as much.

	28-07-2003 03:02									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Rebels choose Apple. Sycophants choose PC.

I have a much more general set of definitions:

People who know what they are doing choose Unix / *nix
People who don't know what they are doing choose something else

	28-07-2003 04:02									#50
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Idiots choose computers.

Intelligentsia use an abacus to connect to the internet.

	28-07-2003 04:24									#51
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 In speed, yes, but in ease of use, I always get much more done, faster, on my mac. It just fits my style. I find it immensely intuitive and user-friendly. I just don't like using PCs as much.

You fallen for Apples propaganda machine. PCs are much better in all factors. The only that Apple does right is its graphics, but even now there is evidence they overstate their performance. And they belong in a fourth grade classroom, not in my room.

	28-07-2003 05:09									#52
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quote: Drake: That Apple interview isn't the "other side of the story" -- it's the exact same one on their website.

Why wouldn't Apple's viewpoint be considered "the other side of the story"? I don't understand.

	28-07-2003 05:21									#53
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"You fallen for Apples propaganda machine. PCs are much better in all factors."

Are you insane? I've said that I use both macs and pcs, and find that I, personally, I'm not saying everyone here, just me, work better on macs. Are you saying that I would actually enjoy myself more on a PC, despite the fact that whenever I am on one, I can only think about how cuddly women are and how much I would rather be on a mac???

For someone who's gay, you seem to be hypocritically against someone's right to personal preference.

	28-07-2003 05:32									#54
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Are you insane? I've said that I use both macs and pcs, and find that I, personally, I'm not saying everyone here, just me, work better on macs. Are you saying that I would actually enjoy myself more on a PC, despite the fact that whenever I am on one, I can only think about how cuddly women are and how much I would rather be on a mac???

I don't care what you do. And I don't care what you use. I am just saying PC is better. But it is up to you. PCs are better. But if you say Macs are better you are mistaken but then again it is up to you for what machine you'll use. I personally think you are making a mistake.

quote: For someone who's gay, you seem to be hypocritically against someone's right to personal preference.

That is totally irrelevant, and by the way being gay is NOT a personal preference. You think I would want to be this way considering the crap I get from some people?

	28-07-2003 05:38									#55
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You think I would want to be this way considering the inane crap I get from you?

	28-07-2003 05:43									#56
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 You think I would want to be this way considering the inane crap I get from you?

Actually I am not the one giving you most of the crap about Apple. That is what Asher does.

	28-07-2003 05:46									#57
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Oh please!!! You're telling me I'm making a mistake by thinking that I work better on macs than on pcs! Are you saying that by throwing a little less **** on my than him, you're less guilty?

	28-07-2003 05:48									#58
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U R ALL GAY *****

Thank you. This public service message has been brought to you by the HARDMAN.

	28-07-2003 05:49									#59
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Oh please!!! You're telling me I'm making a mistake by thinking that I work better on macs than on pcs! Are you saying that by throwing a little less **** on my than him, you're less guilty?

All I am saying is PCs are better.

	28-07-2003 05:51									#60
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quote: U R ALL GAY *****