29-07-2003 00:41									#31
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I have to go along with Industrious as being the best. More roads faster means more commerce early. Quicker access to lux and resources. Later, you rail everything fast for more food and production. Ind. helps you pretty much every single turn of the game right from the start.

Religious and Scientific are next in my book. Both provide cheap culture yielding buildings. Commercial is a step down because markets produce no culture and you really don't benefit from the extra commerce until later in the game. In new or captured cities far from your P or FP you still want to always build either a temple or library. You'll never need a marketplace.

Militaristic is next. Barracks are cheap already. The RNG hates me even with Mil. Exp at the bottom.

	29-07-2003 07:04									#32
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That is a good question, but different than what is the second best trait. It could useful to answer both questions. Answering the first may answer the second.

	29-07-2003 17:35									#33
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Just another voice to the chorus of "Industrial!" I think the Industrialists have it, even though I play the other traits as much - for fun and variety.


(typo edited)

	30-07-2003 01:18									#34
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quote: Originally posted by TheArsenal From what I've read at this (and other) forums, and from my games, most people are. The debate should really be refined to the question: "Which Civ trait compliments Industrious the best?"

hi ,

expan does


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	30-07-2003 01:31									#35
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No banana option?!

No. Industrious is the best.

	30-07-2003 03:26									#36
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I used to think religious is best. The flexibility to change governments at will is definitely convenient. Currently however, I just play Rome and stay in monarchy. Conquer and build, with cities large enough (with Commercial trait) to support the army of my dreams, coupled with ... well, the army of my dreams.

I suppose I should deliberately play an industrious civ again sometime, instead of playing Rome or Random.

	30-07-2003 07:24									#37
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vmxa1, Industrious increases the chance of a settler from hut by replacing all barb results with one of the remaining options. Also, no units lost to barbs from huts increases the amount of terrain you can uncover and the number of huts you can get. There is a reason Exp is highly preferred for MP.

Arrian, I agree Exp can be a gamble, and that is why I have yet to push it for any demo game I have been in. However, in each of those demo games, my team has had to watch an Exp civ get that free settler at an early point and make hay out of it. Oh well, maybe one of these times... (and of course you know, that will be THE time that no settler from hut appears )

	30-07-2003 07:58									#38
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither vmxa1, Industrious increases the chance of a settler from hut by replacing all barb results with one of the remaining options. Also, no units lost to barbs from huts increases the amount of terrain you can uncover and the number of huts you can get. There is a reason Exp is highly preferred for MP.

You mean EXP, I presume. I understand all of that, but it does not mean much to me.
Like I said the AI often does not even pop the huts right next to its starting town. I have pop many huts right next to an AI city. What this means is that I do not need to waste a trait on exp. I will get all of th huts in my area anyway. My results may be less than it would with the exp trait, but it is not worth it to me in the long run.
MP is another matter altogether.
After the huts are done, then what? I have a trait that is not going to do much for me the rest of the game and will surely wish I had something else then.
I mean I have used exp civs many time and I can do with out it thanks.

	30-07-2003 08:14									#39
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The best thread in the end is the one that suits you're playing style, simple as that

	30-07-2003 09:01									#40
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i can never get over how great the 1 turn anarchy is...

	30-07-2003 18:59									#41
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 i can never get over how great the 1 turn anarchy is...

hi ,

two and three turns with other traits aint bad either , unfortunatly they dont happen so often , .....

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	30-07-2003 23:00									#42
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 i can never get over how great the 1 turn anarchy is...

Even better 0 turns by not switching all the time.

	31-07-2003 00:19									#43
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Like I said, I conceded the Religious vs. Industrious argument. I'm convinced.

But I do not think putting Rel as #2 is such a stretch.

It's not just the cheap temples/cathedrals, it's the lack of anarchy.

Production is power, right? Well, you don't get any production when you're in anarchy (4-7 turns?). Even if you only switch governments once, that's nothing to sneeze at!

YMMV depending on settings & playstyle.

-Arrian

	31-07-2003 03:08									#44
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 You mean EXP, I presume. I understand all of that, but it does not mean much to me.

Doh! I should stop posting when I'm tired and not feeling so well.

quote: Like I said the AI often does not even pop the huts right next to its starting town. I have pop many huts right next to an AI city. What this means is that I do not need to waste a trait on exp. I will get all of th huts in my area anyway. My results may be less than it would with the exp trait, but it is not worth it to me in the long run. MP is another matter altogether.

Agreed, Exp is far more valuable for MP than SP, however...

quote: After the huts are done, then what? I have a trait that is not going to do much for me the rest of the game and will surely wish I had something else then. I mean I have used exp civs many time and I can do with out it thanks.

True there. The thing that makes it a gamble is what you get from the haul. If you get a free settler, or 2 (occassionally) at an early point, what you get for the whole rest of the game is the production potential of that free city and all the cities that it spawns. That can be quite a lot, and if it comes at a critcal time to shift the balance of power then...

The tech advantage can also be quite substantial.

Be that as it may, what Arrian said about YMMV is quite correct. There is no single 'this is the best trait', or second best for that matter. It depends on style of play.