29-07-2003 02:15									#31
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Read my post, Odin. You putz.
Ann Richards, former Texas governor. Democrat.

	29-07-2003 02:17									#32
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Gerrymandering is a fact of American politics. That being said, hell no, we shouldn't accept it.

	29-07-2003 02:17									#33
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quote: Why is preventing gerrymandering cowardly? Oh, that is right you are anti-democratic like all republicans.

Or Democrats? Oh wait... gerrymandering by Democrats is alright by you, right?

	29-07-2003 02:18									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis Gerrymandering is a fact of American politics. That being said, hell no, we shouldn't accept it.

=

	29-07-2003 02:19									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Speak for yourself, creationist.

The creationist debate is another thread.

quote: Why is preventing gerrymandering cowardly?

Preventing gerrymandering is not cowardly. Running away instead of fighting it through political means, is.

quote: Oh, that is right you are anti-democratic like all republicans.

So you resort to silly partisan name calling.

	29-07-2003 02:20									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Both parties try to cheat with districts. They try to keep their supports all in one group and then cut the other guys supports into several different districts. I wish we could have a none political emperical way of designating districts such as they must be as close ot a square shape as possible and they must be as densely populated as possible. If we could take the redistricting decisions away from the interested parties then we might just get a better democracy.

Map grids wouldn't work really well. What should happen is a non-partisan commission should set them based on a previous set of existing objective criteria, including boundaries of other government subdivisions, consistent with prior court rulings, etc. L.A. is an example where you can't avoid having one city have multiple state or Federal districts, but otherwise, there should be an effort to avoid chopping cities or counties out into several districts such that the city or county electorate is a minority of each of the district's it's divided into.

Rural and ag areas have different demographics and political interests than suburbs, etc. The goal should be to as much as objectively possible maximize representation of all voters, and equalize that representation.

	29-07-2003 02:21									#37
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat gerrymandering is not cowardly. Running away instead of fighting it through political means, is.

Preventing a vote is the only way to stop the gerrymandering.

DUH!

	29-07-2003 02:24									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Preventing a vote is the only way to stop the gerrymandering. DUH!

Running out of town isn't the answer.

Heck, maybe the next time Republicans don't like a democrat bill, we should just run out of town to prevent a vote.

We can call it "pulling a democrat" on a bill.

	29-07-2003 03:48									#39
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quote: You are wrong 2 rights make a U -turn

D'oh! I meant two wrongs don't make a right...it seems the cemented in your childish belief that I meant what I say. (A common mistake, however. Do not take it badly.)

quote: We can call it "pulling a democrat" on a bill.

Two wrongs don't make a right

	29-07-2003 05:07									#40
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Everyone is surprised with politics as usual?

	29-07-2003 05:11									#41
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Fleeing the state is usual politics where you live?

	29-07-2003 05:13									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Fleeing the state is usual politics where you live?

Ok, you have a point.
But really, politicians will try every conceivable loophole if they see that it advances their vested interests.

But yeah, this loophole is not usual.

	29-07-2003 05:13									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Everyone is surprised with politics as usual?

What? I wish the Dems in congress had the GUTS of these guys, the Dem congresspeople are spineless.

	29-07-2003 06:17									#44
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Go Dems! I have little sympathy for the Democrats, especially the Texan ones, but it's nice to finally see some have grown backbones. Maybe we can stave off the transformation of Texas into a banana republic for a little while.

The GOP's redistricting plan was a total scam. DeLay's plan is so blatantly based out of undermining the democratic process that he didn't bother with any pretense of trying to achieve fairness. For instance, his plan partitions overwhelmingly Democratic Austin into four and ties them into nearby Republican districts to eliminate Austinite influence in the state and national governments. And a community on the Mexican border had been tied to one 300 miles away. Et c., etc. Furthermore, the Reps' actions are defying Texas House rules, which dictate that redistricing should occur only once every decade (the last redistricting was in 2000, right after the census). Then, of course, there's DeLay's totalitarian streak with regards to monitoring the dissident Dems through the Homeland Security Dept. and the FAA. It's nice to see some people with enough balls to stick up for democracy in this country.

	29-07-2003 06:41									#45
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Wow, I didn't know it was THAT bad. If so, DeLay should be drawn and quartered.

	29-07-2003 06:42									#46
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Well, the Democrats have rigged it ther way for an eon in the South. I would actually prefer a move away from gerrymandering and towards following county lines and such...

	29-07-2003 07:16									#47
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The Texan Dems haven't screwed over the Reps like this for a long time. The 2000 plan was immeasurably more fair than DeLay's.

	29-07-2003 07:20									#48
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Do you think they'll send the Texas Rangers (not the sports team) after them this time if they run again?

	29-07-2003 07:21									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo The Texan Dems haven't screwed over the Reps like this for a long time. The 2000 plan was immeasurably more fair than DeLay's.

I think you meant they screwed them for a long time.

	29-07-2003 07:31									#50
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quote: Do you think they'll send the Texas Rangers (not the sports team) after them this time if they run again?

No doubt. The Reps have no regard for silly things like legal jurisdiction when it hinders their quest for a one party state.

quote: I think you meant they screwed them for a long time.

Would you mind pointing out which aspects of the 2000 plan were so blatantly anti-democratic as the examples of DeLay's I just posted?

	29-07-2003 07:46									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo No doubt. The Reps have no regard for silly things like legal jurisdiction when it hinders their quest for a one party state. Would you mind pointing out which aspects of the 2000 plan were so blatantly anti-democratic as the examples of DeLay's I just posted?

I guess for a young kid, 2000 is a long time ago.

	29-07-2003 07:49									#52
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Would you mind telling him what it actually is instead of just being a general arsehole?

	29-07-2003 08:03									#53
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Expecting straight answers from TCO is a little much, mrmitchell.

	29-07-2003 08:06									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo No doubt. The Reps have no regard for silly things like legal jurisdiction when it hinders their quest for a one party state.

Isn't fleeing the state to prevent a legal vote in the Legistlature a crime?

	29-07-2003 08:08									#55
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1. Since when?
2. Texas state police have no jurisdiction in OK.

	29-07-2003 08:11									#56
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The sad thing is that the Republicans don't realize that the **** they're pulling in Texas and Colorado could provoke serious responses in places like California and New York where the Dems control the legislature.

	29-07-2003 08:13									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo 1. Since when?

I don't know. I wouldn't have thought there would have been any talk about extradition the last time this happened if everything was on the up and up.

	29-07-2003 08:20									#58
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I bet there are very few representatives in the Texas House that are present for the entire time that it's in session. Just because enough people abstain from presence in the House to prevent a quorum, doesn't suddenly make their actions illegal.

	29-07-2003 10:35									#59
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Wich is why we should move to direct representation. Every 1% of the vote a party gets, they get one seat in the legislature.

	30-07-2003 04:35									#60
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bump