29-07-2003 03:56									#1
	random question about print advertising: define "Bleed" Full PM-box? Change here!

From the context I am looking at, it seems to imply that when printing ads, they expect the ink to bleed beyond the size of the plate they are printing from. But then the pricing schemes related to different bleed sizes look like they are penalizing the customer for what type of ink and paper they print on (which would contribute to bleeding).

What am i missing?

Any help appreciated.

	29-07-2003 03:56									#2
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2nd edit: I'll never stop learning

Last edited by Ecthy on 29-07-2003 at 04:17

	29-07-2003 04:04									#3
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It's a long time ago now... pretty sure they are referring to the "smudge" factor. Paper absorbs ink, and how much absorbtion contributes to the final sharpness (or not) of the finished product.

Also, "Bleed" can refer to the a gradual fade from one colour to another... usually there are crop marks on printed material, to show where to guillotine them. Without crop marks, just blending the edges allows the person cutting up the pages a little leeway.

Hope this helps - and don't take it as gospel.

	29-07-2003 04:15									#4
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Bleed... as in the standard term used in advertising.

Most magazines have a set size of page that allows for a white trim around the page. In the old days, this was due to plate sizes. Now, it is more a matter of look and design.

Bleed means that you can run your ad to the edge of the page on all four sides and not have a white edge around your ad. You will usually see in the mechanical requirements that there is an AD SIZE and the a TRIM SIZE. The ad size reflects the normal size for a full page ad. The Trim Size reflects the true size of the page. If your ad is "BLEED" it means you are sending them materials in the Trim Size, and that your add will bleed to the full size of the page.

In the old days, this would cost the magazines more, so they charged you more for it. Now, with modern presses and technology, this is just a rip off charge for them to make more money. Many magazines no longer charge a bleed rate, and most will negoiate it away if you fight them on it.

	29-07-2003 04:19									#5
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When you do offset printing, typically you print on oversize paper and trim. Normal margins aren't defined to the original edge of the paper, but to the trim edge. This allows a little bit of imprecision in paper feeding and trimming.

When you have elements that "bleed" it means they'll be cut in the trimming process, because they go past the trim edge. The more stuff you have that bleeds, the more you notice variations in page trim, and your overall print run looks worse because those variations are more obvious when you don't have margins to work with.

Bleed allowance is a charge for how precisely the trim work and folding has to be done, i.e. what you need for a grocery sales insert in a freebie newspaper is a lot less than what you need for fine art printing.

	29-07-2003 04:21									#6
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I as a non-arts-guy can still not quite imagine what it is about. Could someone post an exemplaric image?

	29-07-2003 04:31									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion I as a non-arts-guy can still not quite imagine what it is about. Could someone post an exemplaric image?

Non Bleed Ad...



Bleed Ad...




Notice how the bleed ad goes all the way to the ends of all four sides of the page, while the non bleed ad is surrounded by white.

	29-07-2003 04:34									#8
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I had never realized before there might actually be technical reasons to do that. The way you explain it it makes sense to me though. And I understand how it would hardly be important like that nowadays.

	29-07-2003 04:38									#9
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It's not important any more with todays printing technology... just another old standby way of magazines ripping advertisers off. The charge for many magazines is 15% above the normal price. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Agencies usually negotiate that away...

Most ads these days in magazines are blead ads.

You will many non bleed ads in "Sunday Magazines" (which come in with your sunday newspaper) which are still printed the old fashioned way, and the cost difference is a LITTLE relevent.

	29-07-2003 04:39									#10
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ming-check ya pm

	29-07-2003 04:45									#11
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http://desktoppub.about.com/library...y/blg_bleed.htm

	29-07-2003 04:46									#12
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oops
too late

	29-07-2003 04:50									#13
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you guys rock. no web site out there offers THIS kind of expertise on virtually any subject. Thank you Apolyton!

	29-07-2003 04:53									#14
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NP... I've done print media/advertising for 24 years

	29-07-2003 04:56									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Xeones you guys rock. no web site out there offers THIS kind of expertise on virtually any subject. Thank you Apolyton!

Here's our card.

	29-07-2003 05:00									#16
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*Davout takes a note that MtG masters the printing ad technics and related costs*