29-07-2003 15:29									#1
	Hammer of the East - Under Construction Support Apolyton

This is my latest project: A scenario about a fictional war in Germany between the not-collapsed USSR and its allies and the NATO.

I´ve edited an own timeline for this:

March 1990: The Baltin States declared their independence from the USSR. Gorbachev is elected President of the USSR.
May 1990: Boris Yeltsin is elected President of the Duma of the Russian SFSR.
July 1990: XXVIII Party Rally of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. Gorbachev is critisised but elected again Chairman of the Communist Party.
October 1990: Gorbachev is awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
January 1991: The struggle for independence of the Baltic States is bloody suppressed by the Red Army.
April 1991: The struggle for independence of the Caucasian States is bloody suppressed by the Red Army.
June 1991: Boris Yeltsin is elected President of the Russian SFRS.
August 1991: Coup d´état in Moscow: Conservative communists, supported by the Red Army, arrest Gorbachev during his holiday on the Crimean Peninsula and Yeltsin in Moscow and a Junta under the command of Gen. Sergey Ramov gain power. The new Soviet Government orders the talks between the two Germanies to stop immediatley and its troops to block all roads to Berlin. As a first reaction US President Bush asks the USSR to withdraw from the roads. As the Red Army and its Warsaw Pact allies are not withdrawing Bush and the German Chancellor Kohl state at a press conference to open the roads to Berlin "by all means necessary" and the mobilisation of the Red Army and the armies of the NATO begin almost simultanously.
September 1991: The military assures Ramov that everything is ready to strike and Ramov orders his troops to attack.

The first attack is launched in the Lübeck beight by the Red Army supported by the Red Navy and Red Air Force taking out as many air bases as possible, catching the Western Allies completely by surprise.

	29-07-2003 15:30									#2
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An overview of the map:

Attachment: map screenshot.gif
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	29-07-2003 15:34									#3
	Problem #1: Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I edited the map as Dr Kellogg said, Potsdam is now East German.

And now here´s my problem: As you can see below, the Warsaw Pact Allies should have the same colour as the German Democratic Republic. The Rules.txt says this:

Sergey Ramov, 0, 1, 1, Soviet Union, Soviet, 1, 1, -1,
Erich Honecker, 0, 2, 2, DDR, German, 0, -1, -1,
Helmut Kohl, 0, 3, 3, Germany, German, -1, -1, 1,
Gustáv Husák, 0, 4, 2, WarPac Allies, European, 0, 0, -1,
George Bush, 0, 5, 4, United States, American, -1, -1, 1,
John R. Galvin, 0, 6, 5, NATO Allies, European, 0, -1, 1,
Franz Vranitzky, 0, 7, 6, Austria, Austrian, -1, -1, 1,

But the map shows the WarPac Allies with blue colours. Can anyone help me out of this mess? I tried over the last 40 minutes to figure out why this is so and I could not fix that.

Attachment: problem #1.gif
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	29-07-2003 18:54									#4
	Re: Problem #1: Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Sergey Ramov, 0, 1, 1, Soviet Union, Soviet, 1, 1, -1, Erich Honecker, 0, 2, 2, DDR, German, 0, -1, -1, Helmut Kohl, 0, 3, 3, Germany, German, -1, -1, 1, Gustáv Husák, 0, 4, 2, WarPac Allies, European, 0, 0, -1, George Bush, 0, 5, 4, United States, American, -1, -1, 1, John R. Galvin, 0, 6, 5, NATO Allies, European, 0, -1, 1, Franz Vranitzky, 0, 7, 6, Austria, Austrian, -1, -1, 1,

This seems to be ok. But I'm pretty sure there's a problem somewhere at the @LEADERS in the rules.txt which causes the WarPac to use the color of the US civ.

	29-07-2003 19:35									#5
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Hm... Not bad, but correct Vistula and Oder in Poland.
Gliwice in Silesian conurbation are the largest inland port in Poland, and in your map, Oder stops somewhere around Oppeln. Also, upper Vistula is not visible, though it doesn't have to be, as it has not such big importance as Oder and Gliwice channel

	29-07-2003 20:11									#6
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If I post the Rules (together with the savegame from the Map Check Thread) could someone have a look at that? Thanks in advance.

BTW, don´t mind about anything else in the Rules.txt, it´s all under construction.

Attachment: rules.txt
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	29-07-2003 20:42									#7
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Ah, that's it. There's a small mistake in the rules file. It has to be:

Helmut Kohl, Helmut Kohl, 0, 3, 3, Germany, German, -1, -1, 1,
Gustáv Husák, Gustáv Husák, 0, 4, 2, WarPac Allies, European, 0, 0, -1,

(just like you posted above)

	29-07-2003 21:04									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Kellogg Ah, that's it. There's a small mistake in the rules file. It has to be: Helmut Kohl, Helmut Kohl, 0, 3, 3, Germany, German, -1, -1, 1, Gustáv Husák, Gustáv Husák, 0, 4, 2, WarPac Allies, European, 0, 0, -1, (just like you posted above)

BANZAI! That was it!

@ Dr Kellogg: Thank you very, very much. I´ll post some units soon! Stay tuned!

	29-07-2003 21:13									#9
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Those cities look vaguely familiar!

This should be a good one!

	29-07-2003 21:27									#10
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Those cities look vaguely familiar! This should be a good one!

@ I wanted to take this time your wonderful cities. I hope you don´t mind ......

@ curt: Thank you for the F-15 ...... another great unit! Maybe you could use the F-16 I´ve made ....

	29-07-2003 22:31									#11
	Units! Support Apolyton

Ok, this is the units.gif file I´m going to use.

3 slots are still free; (1) the Partisan slot is free; any idea which unit I could implement? (2) 5th slot/last row: Mil-24H Hind, still missing. (3) The 8th slot/last row is still free. Any idea what to implement?

Last edited by jim panse on 30-07-2003 at 18:00

	29-07-2003 22:45									#12
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Stephan judging from the map this is a tactical oriented scenario.So nukes aren't really fit.Unless they are tactical nukes of course.

And that plane(don't know its type) on the left of the M1 Abraams has no shadow.

I would also advise against having partizans in the scenario.
Some of the cities are military bases while others are mostly small towns rarely places where partizan activity is noted. Moreover a war for Germany would be over in a matter of weeks, 2 months tops. Hardly the time needed for guerilla groups to organize.

As for unit ideas i think a must have is an allied attack choper, apache, cobra or something.

	29-07-2003 23:21									#13
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quote: As for unit ideas i think a must have is an allied attack choper, apache, cobra or something.

@ Pericles: There is an AH-64A Apache, a Mil-24H Hind will be included as well. I´m thinking of giving the NATO Allies some Huey ....

	29-07-2003 23:54									#14
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Hmmm....

Didn't notice it. Its the one next to that Soviet bloke, right?
It looks more like a Cobra to me, to be honest.

Have you ever played Steel panthers III?
It has a NATO vs USSR scenario in the 1990s. Many usefull ideas(about startegical movements, war objectives etc) in there.It certainly worths a look.

	30-07-2003 00:22									#15
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Hmmmm, I spent more than an hour converting the colours on Figu´s basic AH-64. Dammit. COuld someone have a look on it?

BTW, I never played Steel Panthers III. What´s that game about? Panzer General-like?

	30-07-2003 00:37									#16
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The Apaches as far as i know(in the greek army at least) have green colours.

Steel panthers III is a tactical combat game, divisional level. It is really, really cool.

	30-07-2003 00:40									#17
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse @ I wanted to take this time your wonderful cities. I hope you don´t mind ...... @ curt: Thank you for the F-15 ...... another great unit! Maybe you could use the F-16 I´ve made ....

No sweat, my man!

Our many efforts make a great whole!

And yes, I will find a use for your very cool F16!

	30-07-2003 01:29									#18
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For partisans, it's difficult to suggest a good name, but what about something about refugees?

	30-07-2003 01:52									#19
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Hmmmmmm, Refugees ....... not that bad that idea. i thought about it myself but I don´t know which role they should play. Hmmmmmm ....

	30-07-2003 01:59									#20
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse Hmmmmmm, Refugees ....... not that bad that idea. i thought about it myself but I don´t know which role they should play. Hmmmmmm ....

maybe something like you desperately need to keep them alive or else you loose money?
also you could disband them and gain shields like in "under siege"

	30-07-2003 03:41									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos Have you ever played Steel panthers III? It has a NATO vs USSR scenario in the 1990s. Many usefull ideas(about startegical movements, war objectives etc) in there.It certainly worths a look.

Pity it was absolutely bloody impossible.

	30-07-2003 03:57									#22
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Quite on the contrary!

Apart from the Stalingrand campaign all others were pretty much feasible.

	30-07-2003 11:26									#23
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mmm...seen those before somewhere

Couple of random pointers:

I don't think you should stick my WW2 British tank commander on my Challenger 2. He's wearing khaki (last worn by the British Army c. 1960s) and he's way too big for the tank pic. The tank comanders drawn by Curt are a better size.

You've used my Tornado ADV (fighter used only by Britain) as the generic Nato fighter. The IDS pic I posted is the multi-national one.

Seems I forgot to stick a shadow on my SU-25.

Where are the Nato IFVs?

Shouldn't you use a more modern SPA?

PS I think Jimmywax may look with interest at the MLRS graphic.

The French were not commited to defending Germany in the event of a Warpac invasion IIRC.

You should remove the grey from the generic unit's symbols - it obscures the civ colour. Just use the symbol.

What on earth have Austria got to do with it?

	30-07-2003 13:30									#24
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Ok, I´ll fix that very soon. Has anyone made a Mil-24 Hind graphic, btw? Thank you again for pointing these things out.

I´ll change the briish uniforms, as well as the other things.

NATO´s IFV = M113
SPA = M110, sorry, it looks a bit like the gfx I´ve used

quote: maybe something like you desperately need to keep them alive or else you loose money?

That´s good. I think this will do it.

quote: What on earth have Austria got to do with it?

Austria simply IS there. Additional to this sad fact: I don´t know if you know that there were detailed plans by NATO and the Wasrsaw Pact to violate our Neutrality in case of war. (The Russians only wanted to march through the Danube Valley, the US wanted to throw some H-Bombs to make Austria "impassable". These are the reasons why I included Austria.

	30-07-2003 16:31									#25
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The M113 is an old APC not an IFV. The US, UK and German armies generally use IFVs now, which are proper Infantry Fighting Vehicles fitted with a cannon. Examples are the Bradley, Warrior, BMP series and Marder. Rather than a Russian hovercraft (!) I'd have maybe US and UK or German IFV slots.

The M110 is old-hat too - the UK now uses MLRS and AS90, and the US use MLRS and various marks of M109.

And it's the size of the bloke you've stuck on the roof of the Challenger that's the problem. Use one of Curt's men.

	30-07-2003 17:22									#26
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Ahh... so the shadowless plane is a SU-25.


I was never any good with that technical stuff.

	30-07-2003 20:00									#27
	UNITS! Full PM-box? Change here!

Ok folks, here comes the new & edited units gallery!

quote: maybe something like you desperately need to keep them alive or else you loose money?

@ arthedain: Good idea, I took this WW2 truck and this unit will appear once an enemy has captured a city. It´ll have the trade flag. If you can manage to save these units you may disband/use this caravan!

quote: The M110 is old-hat too - the UK now uses MLRS and AS90, and the US use MLRS and various marks of M109.

@ fairline: I´ll leave the M110s out as you suggested. I think I´ll increase the numbers of the Field Artillery pieces of each civ.

quote: The M113 is an old APC not an IFV. The US, UK and German armies generally use IFVs now, which are proper Infantry Fighting Vehicles fitted with a cannon. Examples are the Bradley, Warrior, BMP series and Marder. Rather than a Russian hovercraft (!) I'd have maybe US and UK or German IFV slots.

@ fairline: I included the Marder (Ger), Warrior (UK) and the LAV-2A3 (USA). The Communists have the BMP-3.

quote: As for unit ideas i think a must have is an allied attack choper, apache, cobra or something.

@ Palaiologos: Now also the Mil-24H Hind is included.


And now for the Nuke Problem:

quote: judging from the map this is a tactical oriented scenario.So nukes aren't really fit.Unless they are tactical nukes of course.

Well, this is something special in this scenario. There are two nukes as you can see.
(1) The flying one is a "small" tactical nuke. As you know the Nuclear Powers have not only these horrible ICBMs and H-Bombs but also smaller rockets (which could be used for conventional warheads as well, e.g. the Tomahawk Cruise Missile) that can also be used for carrying nuclear warheads. These tactical nukes may be used to attack tactical targets without nuking the hell out of a target. These nukes will have an attack value around 70-90, this means that they are not nukes in the Civ2 sense but usage of these weapons will cause mayhem too as noone wished Middle Europe become nuked away for the next 10 million years.
(2) The other nuke is a "real" nuke (in the Civ2 sense). this unit has 99 attack and will definitely cause much more mayhem than the tactical nukes. You will need to fail in the early (conventional) campaign to receive techs that allow you the research further techs leading to the tech with which you can finally ready your ICBMs. I renamed the Manhattan Project wonder to "Nuclear Arms Readying". This has the following reasons:

* You cannot nuke your enemy in the beginning (though you will wish you could .... ).

* If things go well for you some nuke can hit your head too ....... because then the war is not going good for your enemy.

* Readying your nuclear arsenal cannot be hidden in reality, so I thought it should not be hidden in that scenario. The "Nuclear Arms Readying" wonder makes it possible for both sides to have the opportunity to nuke the enemy. This will prevent the following situation: Imagine a "normal" Civ2 game when you are technologically that advanced that you can nuke all your enemies without fearing any consequence (except those weird Knight attacks against tanks ). After the wonder is built you can build nukes. But be sure: The enemy will use them too. For every single nuke that is destroyed your enemy will get a new ICBM via event.


Ok, as I updated the units, I posted the latest version (including the M2 Bradley IFV)

	30-07-2003 22:59									#28
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After some talk with academia I thought that posting a list of the units would not be too bad .....

T-72H
Bundesheer
NATO Infantry
Bundeswehr
B-52 Stratofortress
WarPac Infantry
F-16A/C Fighting Falcon
F/A-18C Hornet
Red Guard
Supply Goods
US Infantry
VDV Paratrooper
Royal Highlanders
Airborne Infantry
Warrior MCV-80 IFV
US Airbase
Field Artillery
Tornado IDS
F-4E/F Phantom II
MiG-23 Flogger B/G
Leopard 2A3
BMP-2
M60A3 Patton
Saab JAS35Ö Draken
LAV-2A5 IFV
MRW 220mm BM.27
MLRS 227mm
MiG-29 Fulcrum
Tu-26 Backfire B
F-111A Aardvark
Red Army
AH-64A Apache
Mirage 2000N
T-80C
Challenger Mk.I
F-15A/C Eagle
Su-27 Flanker B
Landing Craft
Escort Frigate
Kirov Class
AEGIS Cruiser
SSN Submarine
Invincible Class
Landing Ship
Cruise Missile
Tactical Nuke
Nationale Volksarmee
A-10A Thunderbolt II
SAM Launcher
Su-25 Frogfoot
M1A1 Abrams
AMX-30
T-54/55
Marder 1A3 IFV
MiG-21F Fishbed
Leopard 1A3
Nimitz Class
Tu-95M/K Bear A
Mil-24H Hind
SSBN Submarine
Nuclear Missile
Iowa Class
Soviet General

Last edited by jim panse on 31-07-2003 at 18:01

	31-07-2003 16:24									#29
	Re: UNITS! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by jim panse @ fairline: I included the Marder (Ger), Warrior (UK) and the LAV-2A3 (USA). The Communists have the BMP-3.

In 1991 the only US service using the LAV was the USMC, and it was tasked to go to either Norway or the Med in the event of war. The US Army used the M-2 Bradley of which it had thousands in Europe.

Also, I don't think that the BMP-3 had gone into production in significant numbers in 1991 - the BMP-2 was the mainstay of the Warsaw Pact IFV/APC fleet in 91.

Other notes on units:

*Fairline may beat me for saying this, but AFAIK, the Scottish regiments are no longer considered to be above average.

*By 1991 the TU-95 Bear was only used as a maritime recon aircraft and cruise missile launch platform

	31-07-2003 18:02									#30
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I updated the units!

@ Case: If you post a more or less fairline style M2 Bradley I will include it, otherways I will stick to the LAV.