29-07-2003 21:23									#1
	Help! How to survive without iron Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

This is my first time (in higher levels) I have to learn how to live without iron.

I had a very bad starting position, and since I can't play early game to well, I'm now small and weak. I didn't manage to build any of the ancient wonders.
It is the dawn of the second age and I have no iron even near my teritory - the closest source is deep inside the lands of the evil Aztecs.
The Aztecs are huge and strong, they have both iron and horses and soon they'll have chivalry as well.
So fighting my way to the iron is impossible, trade is also not practical because of the distance, jungles and bad AI road network.
I thought maybe I'll get lucky and discover saltpepper in my land, so I'm taking the engineering path for cavalary. (and longbowmen in the way)
That means I'll miss all the hapiness wonders and be behins in techs (won't be able to build unis - education)

I would like some advice on this matter: military, techs, anything. Thanks

	29-07-2003 21:41									#2
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First thought is to start over. Second thought is what is the level of the game, what civ are you.
Can you post a save?

	29-07-2003 21:53									#3
	Got spare money?

Ok. thanks for the quick answer!
It's not that high, regent, but only my third game at this level. I decided to choose another civ instead of my favorite Persians, I'm playing the French this time.
Can't add a save, maybe a screenshot whould help:

Attachment: france.gif
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	29-07-2003 22:56									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

I can't really tell a whole lot from the screenshot (except that you need to get a city over next to that incense source), but you're taking the best route, imo. If I find myself hampered by lack of a resource in any age, and can't take one from somebody, my first instinct is to cross my fingers make that age as short as possible, i.e. get some Cavalry. They single-handedly put an end to the Iron Age, at which point the major danger for you has passed. Don't forget, though, as soon as you have Cavs to go get some Iron! You'll need it for factories.

	29-07-2003 22:58									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You'll do fine with horsemen and archers until your enemies get pikemen.

	29-07-2003 23:10									#6
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect You'll do fine with horsemen and archers until your enemies get pikemen.

Well, that's the problem...I've done fine until then but until my units cross the German jungels...the Aztecs will have not only pikemen but knights.

	30-07-2003 00:32									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Several thoughts.

Do not build cities where there is coast or sea within the city radius unless the city is right on the coast so you can build a harbour to get the extra food from the tiles.

Iron - Cavalry is one option. The other is to go for Astronomy/Navigation and see if there is an island somewhere you can colonise that has iron. You need to expand your civ and founding more cities on terrain where other resources may show up can be a wise investment.

It looks like your early expansion needs to be more aggressive. At regent with an industrious civ you should have left the AI's for dead unless your capital is on really poor terrain. Check out some of the strategy threads on the early game.

Go for invention and gunpowder and trade techs aggressively with the AI's.

	30-07-2003 01:45									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It looks like you have a lot of pink land with few cities in them. A few more citis tighly packed would hav elet you crank out horses to take down some of these AI cities.
The land in the shot is very crappy as it has no land worth mining. You need shields to build.
You need the land that the Germans are holding near you. Massive horse run is the ticket, but you may have missed you window.
You can not be way behind in theland grab, unless you have superior land, that is lots of grass and shields and resources.

	30-07-2003 01:56									#9
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hi ,

SIV , can you attach a save , so we can help you more , ......


have a nice day

	30-07-2003 06:04									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Looks like your chances of getting saltpeter are fairly good, but you never know, I have heard of games were there was only one source or no source of coal, so cross your fingers.

	30-07-2003 08:48									#11
	Got spare money?

Now I'm a bit confused...I'm buiding a wonder in Paris...I can try Sun-Tzus in abuot 24 turns (and have a military advantage) or build the Great Lighthouse and explore new, hopfully loaded wih iron, lands. I wonder which is better.
(since I'll have no knights, maybe barracks are not so important)

	30-07-2003 09:00									#12
	Tired of ads?

well, if you're taking a different tech route, you can make a lot of money/techs off the techs you do know since not many/any AI civs will have them, thats a start...

	30-07-2003 10:32									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by SIV Now I'm a bit confused...I'm buiding a wonder in Paris...I can try Sun-Tzus in abuot 24 turns (and have a military advantage) or build the Great Lighthouse and explore new, hopfully loaded wih iron, lands. I wonder which is better. (since I'll have no knights, maybe barracks are not so important)

It looks like you have one large land mass, so I would not care for the GL all that much.
Free barracks is always a good thing as Vets are much better than regulars. Not to mention fast healing.

	30-07-2003 16:30									#14
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Playing on Emperor level with such a bad starting position is not for me.

Get to grips with a good starting position on the higher levels.

	30-07-2003 18:50									#15
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by SIV Now I'm a bit confused...I'm buiding a wonder in Paris...I can try Sun-Tzus in abuot 24 turns (and have a military advantage) or build the Great Lighthouse and explore new, hopfully loaded wih iron, lands. I wonder which is better. (since I'll have no knights, maybe barracks are not so important)

hi ,

explore , that should give you maps that other civs hopefully dont have yet and give you all the money you need to rush them barracks , ......

have a nice day

	30-07-2003 21:16									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

OK. thanks for the help. Now waht about warfare:
I played a few turns and got some german land.
I've been building a road network towards the Aztecs (for troops ofcourse, not silly trade )

I'll have longbowmen soon, and I used them in war only one time before.
Are they any good in a war against pikemen/swordsmen/horsemen and if so, how to use them? I guess I must defend them with spermen...

	30-07-2003 22:21									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

keep yourself to high terrain

bring some horsemen with you to attack weakened knights, it will pay off in the long run (horseman = 30 shields, knight = 70 shields)

	31-07-2003 03:50									#18
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quote: Originally posted by SIV OK. thanks for the help. Now waht about warfare: I played a few turns and got some german land. I've been building a road network towards the Aztecs (for troops ofcourse, not silly trade ) I'll have longbowmen soon, and I used them in war only one time before. Are they any good in a war against pikemen/swordsmen/horsemen and if so, how to use them? I guess I must defend them with spermen...

hi ,

, SIV , can you post a save or a couple of screenshots , ......

yes longbow men can be great , but it depends how and where you use them , ..... dont start to go after pikeman fortified in woods on the other side of a riverbank , .....

except if you have large stacks of them , ......

have a nice day

	31-07-2003 05:57									#19
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-

Last edited by flipside on 02-03-2004 at 05:07

	31-07-2003 21:25									#20
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thanks agian for the advice!
I used some of it to expand and launch a small longbowmen+horsemen campaign against the Aztecs.
I took a few cities, got 2 leaders (one for the FP) and even entered a golden age (found 1 saltpepper BTW) while using the usless 3 attack of the musketeer

I still haven't got iron and I'm not a "winner" yet...but the cavalary age is going to change all that

Attachment: frankland.gif
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