30-07-2003 01:13									#31
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If the spanking makes him pissed off, he might be too old for it. How old did you say he was?

	30-07-2003 01:15									#32
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Phases. Rockets had stages, people have phases.

	30-07-2003 01:16									#33
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Well, having never been spanked as a child did not result in me misbehaving, at least not any more than anyone else I knew, spanked or not.

I hated the thought of disappointing my parents, and that was often enough to keep me in check.

I imagine that if I had grown up with siblings close in age (I do have 1/2 brothers & sisters who are much older), things could have been a tad more interesting. My brother's 3 boys are harder to control.

-Arrian

	30-07-2003 01:16									#34
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Corpus:

I saw a kid in Target throwing a fit on the ground, and his mom kept asking to stand up. I thought, what a stupid mom, so a began rolling around on the floor demanding that my wife buy me a new toy.

Kid stopped being a brat.

In that case you showed them the stupidity of their actions.

What are you to do when your kid punchs someone at school, or hits his sister? Are you going to hit his sister too? The stupidity of their action can not be demonstrated without amusing the child and hurting someone else, yet the stupidity of their action can be displayed by hitting the kid...

	30-07-2003 01:16									#35
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quote: I made a pint to hug my children after I spanked them and told them I loved them.

Apparently that's exactly what you absolutely don't have to do. First you beat them and a minute later you hug them and say you love them. You'll be confusing the child and it won't know if his or her action was good or bad.

	30-07-2003 01:17									#36
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quote: She (my daughter) began to throw a major tantrum. I was trying to reason w/ her but it was not working. I did not want to spank her in public so I decided on a different method...........I began Jumping Up & Down & demanding that she behave very loudly.The adults around us were laughing. My daughter became Extremely Embarassed & started to cry. Mission accomplished!!! She has not thrown a fit with me ever since.

That's a good one.

-Arrian

	30-07-2003 01:18									#37
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quote: What are you to do when your kid punchs someone at school, or hits his sister? Are you going to hit his sister too? The stupidity of their action can not be demonstrated without amusing the child and hurting someone else, yet the stupidity of their action can be displayed by hitting the kid

I'm sorry, but I just cannot accept that you can teach a child that violence is bad by hitting them. Full stop.

-Arrian

	30-07-2003 01:19									#38
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quote: First you beat them and a minute later you hug them and say you love them.

Prep fpr S&M

	30-07-2003 01:22									#39
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quote: I saw a kid in Target throwing a fit on the ground, and his mom kept asking to stand up. I thought, what a stupid mom, so a began rolling around on the floor demanding that my wife buy me a new toy.

quote: She (my daughter) began to throw a major tantrum. I was trying to reason w/ her but it was not working. I did not want to spank her in public so I decided on a different method...........I began Jumping Up & Down & demanding that she behave very loudly

	30-07-2003 01:24									#40
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quote: I'm sorry, but I just cannot accept that you can teach a child that violence is bad by hitting them

So, how would you teach them? Wait until they can reason properly/maturly?

My mom got me to stop hitting everyone by enrolling me in Karate at age 6. Can't remember a thing on how to fight, but I did learn that my elders are to be respected, and that it hurts to get kicked or punched...

	30-07-2003 01:28									#41
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I like the "time out" concept. It is immediate, and it is a punishment combined with getting them to a quiet spot where they can calm down.

Like I said, my parents never had the need to smack me, and I turned out fine.

My aunt's kids (2 brothers & a sister) look like they are gonna turn out great, and to my knowledge they've never been hit either.

My brother's 3 boys appear to be doing ok, though they were more unruly. They were occasionally smacked.

-Arrian

	30-07-2003 01:28									#42
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Spanking is wrong, at all times.

Respect, love and attention, but also clear rules and discipline, that's what kids need.

And school DOES have a job in raising kids, apart from plain academia. As long as the parents don't forget their part. But teachers should respect and care for their students.
There's nothing worse than a teacher who does nothing but scribble his notes on the board and snarls at you when you're not doing well.

	30-07-2003 01:28									#43
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My mom was the disciplinarian in the family. She administered the whippings which were very infrequent (belt, switch, hot wheel track)up until i was10. Grounding from there on out. I would have rather had a whipping than grounding. I think that U need to look at each situation & an act accordingly. Also it is hard for some parents to pick the appropriate from of punishment while they are angry.

	30-07-2003 01:30									#44
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I assume these comments are directed at me? It is obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I will however refrain from putting it into words.

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Spanking a 15 year old daughter is more of sexual harrasment than punishment.

If you think that punishment of children has anything to do with either sex or power, I would advise you to visit a mental health facility soon. I find I hav no need to spank her because she is beyond those behaviors that are bad enough to be spankable. She behaves and not out of fear. She knows she will no longer be spanked. The lessons by this time are either learned or not.

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Likewise, by the time your child is 11 years old, he should have the ability to reason out the whole grounding thing and you don't need to spank him, unless you have raised an incredible idiot.

Wrong agasin. While he is at an age in which he can indeed reason out the fact that taking away priviledges is connected to the behavior, it still is not to the point that he cares enough about future actions, beyond a handfull of days. While he knows that school will start soon, he dosn't really care and won't think about it seriously until it is a matter of days away. However, most of his transgressions are the type in which he doen't think ahgead about the reactions to his actions. He will run with a knive, not because he doesn't know that running with a knife is dangerous, he knows it, he just doesn't think about what could happen. He is likely to try things on the spur of the moment and not think about it in depth. Most of his punishment consists of sitting him down and expaining to him just what could have happened in minor cases, and applying re-enforcement to the lesson in major cases.

As far as their behavoir, intellegence and social developement, I will be happy to stack them up against you or any children you have managed to procreate.

	30-07-2003 01:33									#45
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quote: each situation & an act accordingly

Corpus; so you would condone spanking, if necessary. I know I needed it as a kid...

quote: Also it is hard for some parents to pick the appropriate from of punishment while they are angry.

Good point. I ussually got sent to my room first... then spanked and released... or tagged and released as my dad called it...

quote: If you think that punishment of children has anything to do with either sex or power

it was a joke... hence the

I agree with the rest of the post

	30-07-2003 01:38									#46
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Japher......I would condone some form of spanking but after a certain age (someone said a child will the ability to reason) & grounding would be more appropriate. I could not stand to be grounded for an extended amount of time. However there is a very very fine line between a couple of swats & a beating.

	30-07-2003 01:39									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Apparently that's exactly what you absolutely don't have to do. First you beat them and a minute later you hug them and say you love them. You'll be confusing the child and it won't know if his or her action was good or bad.

And I totally disagree wwith that. They behavior happens. The spanking occurs and then you put it behind you. You don't hold a grudge. I am not saying that as soon as you put down the belt you grab them and hug them. You spank them, talk with them to farther expain what they did wrong and why it isn't acceptable and then at the end, hug them and let them know that you still love them even though they behaved badly and had to be punished. It doesn't cause any confusion.

	30-07-2003 01:40									#48
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Anyone here who thinks a 5 year old is not smart enough to reason is severely underestimating young children.

	30-07-2003 01:41									#49
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quote: If you think that punishment of children has anything to do with either sex or power, I would advise you to visit a mental health facility soon. I find I hav no need to spank her because she is beyond those behaviors that are bad enough to be spankable. She behaves and not out of fear. She knows she will no longer be spanked. The lessons by this time are either learned or not.

No, no, no. By the time a child is 15, they can definitely get the point through methods other than spanking. Everyone I've ever talked to about it agrees with me, and usually, transgressions by that age are more of the regular "teenage rebellion" that can be corrected by raising them well in their early years. (Like Japher said, he stayed up late but he knew he messed up and he apologized to his parents. Now that's some damn fine parenting.)

quote: Wrong agasin. While he is at an age in which he can indeed reason out the fact that taking away priviledges is connected to the behavior, it still is not to the point that he cares enough about future actions, beyond a handfull of days. While he knows that school will start soon, he dosn't really care and won't think about it seriously until it is a matter of days away. However, most of his transgressions are the type in which he doen't think ahgead about the reactions to his actions. He will run with a knive, not because he doesn't know that running with a knife is dangerous, he knows it, he just doesn't think about what could happen. He is likely to try things on the spur of the moment and not think about it in depth. Most of his punishment consists of sitting him down and expaining to him just what could have happened in minor cases, and applying re-enforcement to the lesson in major cases.

Sitting him down and explaining is good, especially by the time he is 11. Most of the time by he is 11 he will be able to hash out more complicated things than, say, 6 or 4. For example, an 11 year old who does A and gets B on date C taken away from him should be able to figure out that the privelige denial was because of action A. If he can't, then you are either seriously underestimating him or you've got bigger problems than action A.

quote: As far as their behavoir, intellegence and social developement, I will be happy to stack them up against you or any children you have managed to procreate.

I'll pass. I don't want to accept a "Mine is longer" contest about kids, of all things.

	30-07-2003 01:42									#50
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I agree that different situations and people need different reponses

I also tend to think that after 10-12 spankings are no longer needed (and I think that there is a stage (probably 12+) where the proper response to some problems is to call the cops)

Jon Miller

	30-07-2003 01:43									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator Anyone here who thinks a 5 year old is not smart enough to reason is severely underestimating young children.

depends on the kid

Jon Miller

	30-07-2003 01:48									#52
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Most parents should be able to tell if their 5 year old is smart enough or not.

Spanking is a small, insignificant phase over the early years (up to 10 at the most.) Instead of spanking, time-outs work relatively efficiently if the child can be shut up and then after that, groundings etc. come into play. By the time your child is past 10, you are underestimating him if you are still giving him spankings, and in fact he's probably only getting negative feedback (the spanking no longer works and to the child it's more of a sadistic beating instead of a punishment.)

	30-07-2003 01:49									#53
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Yes... And that depends on how much they got spanked or neglected in the previous years.

	30-07-2003 01:53									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator Anyone here who thinks a 5 year old is not smart enough to reason is severely underestimating young children.

They are able to reason, but they do not understand complex relationships. Time is a big one. Future actions. They can talk about it but they do not understand it. They can repaeat words, but the base isn't there.

A good example is taking children on a long trip.

When they are really small, below 5, they have no real conscept of time beyond before, now and after. They do know that supper comes later but don't really understand by how much. On our long trip, they will not worry about how long it takes as long as there is something to occupy their minds.

When they are in the 6-10 year range, they start to get an idea of what time is. They know that meals come at regular times, they just don't have the concept of larger or finer increments. 5 minutes tends to be just as far away as 5 hours. If you take them on a long trip they will be the ones who ask how much longer every 5 minutes. You tell them it will be an hour to get there and they wait what is a long time to them and ask again.

After 10 or so they begin to be able to judge and reason in increments of time. If you tell them that the trip will take 5 hours, they can inderstand and monitor progress.

This goes into a lot of complex concepts. The children are developing, go figure. Also, before the blood flies, these are large generalizations. However, one of the worst things you can do is to overestimate the reasoning ability of a child of a given age. Even though they can parrot the logic of an adult and olderchild it doesn't mean they understand it or can deal with it fully. Understanding the developement of the child can go a long way into making it a lot easier to go through raising them.

	30-07-2003 01:58									#55
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Several people have mentioned time outs. I and the wife tried them, they didn't work. My children had active enough imaginations that when put in a corner they could still amuse themselves and it wasn't a punishment at all.

	30-07-2003 02:04									#56
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I don't know about you, but when I was 5, I was already in school.

Have you ever seen programs about young children losing a parent or so? They are perfectly able to grasp it... The only problem really is the parents who don't know what to say. Not to mention things like birds, bees and Santa Claus.

	30-07-2003 09:08									#57
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tell them they should have been aborted

	30-07-2003 09:37									#58
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My parents never spanked me and never grounded me, and I was a very obedient child. They employed a different tactic... I think it was called good parenting or something.

	30-07-2003 09:40									#59
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Anyone who resorts to spanking their kid admits that they've been outwitted by a child.

	30-07-2003 09:58									#60
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quote: My parents never spanked me and never grounded me, and I was a very obedient child. They employed a different tactic... I think it was called good parenting or something.

quote: Anyone who resorts to spanking their kid admits that they've been outwitted by a child.