31-07-2003 07:53									#31
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So you admit that Opera is the only real browser? At least, that's the only browser with 0.6% in that other thread's article.

	31-07-2003 07:53									#32
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See the Mozilla eWeek thread.

	31-07-2003 07:54									#33
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Methinks that, what with Opera identifying itself as IE by default, any statistics you pull out are going to inaccurately favoure IE. Just something to keep in mind.

	31-07-2003 07:54									#34
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell So you admit that Opera is the only real browser? At least, that's the only browser with 0.6% in that other thread's article.

What the hell kind of logic is this?

I assumed you meant Opera

	31-07-2003 07:54									#35
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Methinks I did see that thread, and that's what my crosspost was about.

Methinks me will forgive you for it, though, Asher, because it is a crosspost.

Methinks Skanky is right. Opera probably has at least as much as Moz.

	31-07-2003 07:56									#36
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quote: I assumed you meant Opera

Nope. Opera and Mozilla and Firebird and Safari--I've tested 3 out of those 4 and all are better than IE. And they can't just cover 0.6% of the market.

	31-07-2003 07:58									#37
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I tried Mozilla 1.5a for two days and ran into about a dozen bugs that annoyed me. Firebird is just simply unstable, even 0.6.1. Safari/Konqueror is nice but still has major compatibiltiy problems, and JavaScript speed is still abnormally slow.

No browser can compete with IE for speed on Windows.

	31-07-2003 08:02									#38
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(1) Maybe part of this is because Internet Explorer is built into Windows? (This is an anticompetitive move and makes speed arguments irrelevant, BTW)

(2) It still seems odd to me that I can run 1.3a for months with no crashes and one annoying bug but you run 1.5a for two days and you encounter 12 bugs. (Just an observation. I'm not accusing you of lieing or anything, just having the uncanny ability to **** things up. )

	31-07-2003 08:10									#39
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell (1) Maybe part of this is because Internet Explorer is built into Windows? (This is an anticompetitive move and makes speed arguments irrelevant, BTW)

So it's anticompetitive for Linux distros to bundle browsers as well?

What else would you have people do? If your computer didn't come with an internet browser, how would you get it? You'd need to buy it in the store or something.

When your computer ships with IE, you can use it to download Opera or something.

It only makes speed arguments "irrelevant" to people who don't want to deal with it -- whether or not it's bundled with the OS and integrated with the OS is irrelevant -- it IS integrated, and it IS faster because of it. And as an end user, I prefer new windows to appear instantly when I hit CTRL-N, not with a 2-3 second delay like Mozilla or 2 like Opera and Firebird.

quote: (2) It still seems odd to me that I can run 1.3a for months with no crashes and one annoying bug but you run 1.5a for two days and you encounter 12 bugs. (Just an observation. I'm not accusing you of lieing or anything, just having the uncanny ability to **** things up. )

Or perhaps you're not a power user such as myself.

The most annoying one is how the mouse-scroll seemingly randomly stops responding.

And how text in forums is duplicated sometimes.

And in the text fields, they can shrink as I'm typing into it (especially on CounterGlow, for whatever reason).

And the simple "|" blinking character as you type blinks irratically, it's going to give me a seizure one of these days.

Oh, and text becomes highlighted sometimes as I'm typing in Mozilla, and I can't unhighlight it unless I leave the page.

	31-07-2003 08:16									#40
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quote: So it's anticompetitive for Linux distros to bundle browsers as well?

I've never used Linux, so I wouldn't know. But note how I said built into, whereas you said IE is bundled.

quote: Oh, and text becomes highlighted sometimes as I'm typing in Mozilla, and I can't unhighlight it unless I leave the page.

Did you click outside of the text field? C'mon, fess up now. It does that. It's supposed to be some search feature.

quote: And in the text fields, they can shrink as I'm typing into it (especially on CounterGlow, for whatever reason).

Agh! Asher is growing! Before long we'll have a 60 foot monster running along Canada yelling mindless advertisements for Microsoft products!

quote: And how text in forums is duplicated sometimes.

Okay, it does happen. Only once to me so far but it indeed does. However, a couple displaying bugs can't be worse than losing all the great benefits of Mozilla, eh?

	31-07-2003 08:20									#41
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Did you click outside of the text field? C'mon, fess up now. It does that. It's supposed to be some search feature.

Huh? It's not find-as-you-type.

I'm typing a post in a textfield like this one, and say I highlight some stuff and cut it, then the paragraph below mysteriously gets highlighted. It doesn't respond to any highlighting activites (can't copy or cut it or delete it), and I can highlight other things, but until I scroll away and scroll back in the textbook, it's highlighted.

quote: Okay, it does happen. Only once to me so far but it indeed does. However, a couple displaying bugs can't be worse than losing all the great benefits of Mozilla, eh?

It's not a couple, it's a constant stream of bugs I keep finding. Perhaps the zealots that promote it subconsciously ignore them, or perhaps they don't want to admit it.

BTW, as I was typing this in 1.5a, that highlight bug happended again.

Screenshot attached. The last paragraph looks highlighted but isn't, the selection at the top is what I highlighted.

Mozilla is still buggy, bloaty, slow crap. It will be for the forseeable future.

	31-07-2003 08:22									#42
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And another thing: in IE, to scroll inside a frame or textbox, you just need to move the mouse over the box and scroll on the wheel. In Mozilla, this doesn't work -- you have to CLICK in the box, then scroll.

And I hate the URL-bar's interface -- when doubleclicking, it should select the entire line, like every other Windows program.

Mozilla is inconsistent with the rest of Windows. That's incredibly annoying.

	31-07-2003 08:29									#43
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[quote] Perhaps the zealots that promote it subconsciously ignore them, or perhaps they don't want to admit it.[/qutoe]
You don't seem capable of dealing with the fact that someone out there has run Mozilla without many bugs. Is it possible you've experienced blunt head trauma, or were you just raised to be narrow-minded? Perhaps it's possible, on the other hand, that I have this mystical power that prevents Mozilla from crashing...

And as for your random textfield highlighting, it's happened a few times. But I had forgotten about those, and it still doesn't happen enough to make it bothersome. (What, you want me to keep a detailed log of every bug each of my programs has? )

And it kinda happened. Once I scrolled my mouse away (to "Submit Reply") it highlighted what was scrolled over in the text field. I don't know why. But Mozilla is still better

(Could some megageek help me out here? And point out complicated stuff like "On line 468xAB90288, Internet Explorer clearly has a bug that renders it inable to handle [f*ck] codes that are necessary to porn websites' function, whereas Mozilla supports [f*ck] and [b*tch] codes?")

	31-07-2003 08:31									#44
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quote: And I hate the URL-bar's interface -- when doubleclicking, it should select the entire line, like every other Windows program.

Does it for me.

quote: Mozilla is inconsistent with the rest of Windows. That's incredibly annoying.

If every product in the world was Windows style, we'd be in a hell of a lot of trouble. Also, I don't see how it is inconsistent aside from your individual problem you said up there (which is apparently only a problem for you, I guess.)

	31-07-2003 08:32									#45
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell You don't seem capable of dealing with the fact that someone out there has run Mozilla without many bugs. Is it possible you've experienced blunt head trauma, or were you just raised to be narrow-minded? Perhaps it's possible, on the other hand, that I have this mystical power that prevents Mozilla from crashing..

It's not so much crashing anymore, but bugs that make it a complete nuisance.

ANOTHER one just popped up (I swear it!) I was using the mouse wheel to scroll down the "reply to" page here, when it wouldn't stop -- it scrolled til it hit the bottom, then became unresponsive for 5 seconds (I thought it froze, so I launched Mozilla again, only to find it worked again right after).

I don't need to keep track of every bug I find, I just had about half a dozen more in no less than 15 minutes.

Perhaps it doesn't "bother you", but it annoys the hell out of me. I want my browser to behave consistently and rapidly, Mozilla can't do either.

	31-07-2003 08:33									#46
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Yes, Mozilla is crap. All the times that I have tested it in the past, I've never been satisfied.
I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

Go Opera!

	31-07-2003 08:35									#47
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Does it for me.

Huh?? You either don't understand me or you're bullshitting...

Doubleclick something in the URL bar, like the "apolyton" in Mozilla. It doesn't highlight the whole field, just the word "apolyton".

It's inconsistent with the rest of Windows.

quote: If every product in the world was Windows style, we'd be in a hell of a lot of trouble. Also, I don't see how it is inconsistent aside from your individual problem you said up there (which is apparently only a problem for you, I guess.)

I expect programs I run on Windows to behave like Windows programs, at least by default. I don't expect them to act differently because the geeks who made it use Linux, I don't use Linux and I don't want to -- so why doesn't it behave consistently?

And you're digging yourself a hole by saying it only happens for me -- it's happened on every Mozilla computer I've done it on (Solaris, Linux, Windows). I don't think you understood what I was saying.

	31-07-2003 08:35									#48
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It doesn't bother me because it isn't there.

	31-07-2003 08:36									#49
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It isn't there because you don't want to see it.

	31-07-2003 08:39									#50
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quote: Doubleclick something in the URL bar, like the "apolyton" in Mozilla. It doesn't highlight the whole field, just the word "apolyton".

It works just fine for me. (Maybe me using 1.3a might be it, or maybe you're just nuts. )

quote: And you're digging yourself a hole by saying it only happens for me -- it's happened on every Mozilla computer I've done it on (Solaris, Linux, Windows). I don't think you understood what I was saying.

You mean URL bar as in the bar where the URL is? "http://www.apolyton.net/etc..." I understand you just fine. I doubleclick in it and it highlights the whole thing.

	31-07-2003 08:40									#51
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quote: It isn't there because you don't want to see it.

If you're not going to believe me to begin with, why should I even try talking to you? At least take what I say for something and try to respond instead of creating imaginary worlds where mrmitchell is pumping out fibs or something.

	31-07-2003 08:43									#52
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell It works just fine for me. (Maybe me using 1.3a might be it, or maybe you're just nuts. ) You mean URL bar as in the bar where the URL is? "http://www.apolyton.net/etc..." I understand you just fine. I doubleclick in it and it highlights the whole thing.

Well that's just crazytalk...

It's done the highlight-word-only-on-double-click since at least 0.6 for me...

It's true, you do say stuff -- but it's kinda hard to believe when Mozilla is such buggy crap for everyone else that you seldom run into problems.

	31-07-2003 08:44									#53
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quote: It's done the highlight-word-only-on-double-click since at least 0.6 for me...

Well, I guess I'm just using my satanic powers then.

	31-07-2003 08:45									#54
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quote: It's true, you do say stuff -- but it's kinda hard to believe when Mozilla is such buggy crap for everyone else that you seldom run into problems.

Well, consider me lucky or something. Just don't immediately discount it. I don't know how, on the other end of the spectrum, you managed to collect scores of bugs in just two days of testing

	31-07-2003 08:52									#55
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I'd be a pretty crappy programmer if I didn't know how to find bugs.

	31-07-2003 09:01									#56
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quote: Safari/Konqueror

Asher: AFAIK, Safari and Konqueror are not the same browser, Konqueror is made by KDE for their window manager (but it also works under other window managers just fine) and Safari is made by someone else for Macs.

	31-07-2003 09:02									#57
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Safari and Konqueror both use KHTML as the rendering engine. KDE developed KHTML.

	31-07-2003 09:08									#58
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Oh, now the post I quoted makes sense.

	31-07-2003 09:19									#59
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General Thread Ouctome:

Indecisive. The mini-war between Mozilla and Internet Explorer is still in effect. Occasionally a mysterious browser called "Opera" enters the fray and claims itself worthy of comeptition, but no one notices it.

	31-07-2003 09:20									#60
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If I didn't use IE, I'd use Opera.