30-07-2003 19:25									#1
	New rape law allows change of mind Enter the AD-FREE zone

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SPRINGFIELD, Illinois (AP) -- A new rape law in Illinois attempts to clarify the issue of consent by emphasizing that people can change their mind while having sex.

Under the law, if someone says "no" at any time the other person must stop or it becomes rape. The National Crime Victim Law Institute said it believed the law is the first of its kind in the country.

Lyn Schollett, general counsel for the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault, said the law was important to make it clear to victims, offenders, prosecutors and juries that people have the right to halt sexual activity at any time.

"I think it will empower prosecutors in charging cases where the victim and the offender have a sexual history," she said.

But the director of the Victim Advocacy & Research Group in Boston said it would be hard to imagine courts not upholding a woman's right to withdraw consent.

"To me, it's demeaning," Wendy Murphy said. "It's like the old saying: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' I don't think it was broke."

The law was inspired by a California case involving two 17-year-olds who had sex at a party. The girl changed her mind about having sex, but the boy did not stop immediately.

He was charged with rape, and it took years for the courts to decide that he could be found guilty under California law. The California Supreme Court ruled in January that a man can be convicted if a woman first consents but later asks him to stop.

Lawmakers said they wanted to avoid the same kind of long legal battle in Illinois. Gov. Rod Blagojevich signed the law Friday but did not announce it until Monday.
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/30/rape.law/index.html

Is this a good idea?

I think a woman does have the right to withdraw consent. However, isn't this law going to make rape cases even more difficult to prove? How are you going to prove that the person changed their mind?

	30-07-2003 19:33									#2
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Of cource people, for whatever reason, has a right to change their minds. Overall, the treatment of cases of rape in Sweden and, I imagine, the rest of the world is medieval.

	30-07-2003 19:49									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Overall, the treatment of cases of rape in Sweden and, I imagine, the rest of the world is medieval.

Whats medieval is the way the man is named and villified before he's been found guilty of anything. Even if he is found 'not guilty' people still think it a case of 'no smoke without fire'

	30-07-2003 19:51									#4
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I can't imagine that this would be very easy to prove. Anything that reduces instances of rape and helps catch rapists is a good thing. I'm not sure this does either.

	30-07-2003 19:57									#5
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Victim 'I invited him into my house, we began to have consensual sex but then I changed my my mind, but he would n't stop'

Judge (to the accused) 'Is this correct? She changed her mind'

Accused 'No Your Honour, she did not change her mind'

Jugde 'Any other evidence? No? Case dismissed'

Last edited by reds4ever on 30-07-2003 at 20:15

	30-07-2003 20:08									#6
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I bet you guys get now a real good time with all those "funny" girls saying during sex ...
"Oh ... I just changed my mind dont want no more. Stop right now or I charge you with rape!" ... few seconds later ... "Haha! Just joking, lets go on" *giggles* ... repeat step 1 ... wuhahaha

	30-07-2003 20:12									#7
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Women can pull away in the middle, but it shouldn't really be in the law. It only complicates rape cases.

	30-07-2003 20:14									#8
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Can they change their mind AFTER sex? I bet theres been a few of mine that wish they hadn't of bothered!

	30-07-2003 20:15									#9
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"Your Honour, yes, we both consented at the beginning but when I thought about it after he left I changed my mind."

	30-07-2003 20:23									#10
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on the law: this is the correct law, but:
a) there is no way one could prove this ( unless a video camera was involved ).
b) this thing about demonizing men is correct.

	30-07-2003 20:43									#11
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Yes, the proof would be almost impossible without verbal cues (ie, saying NO). How does the man determine she has changed her mind?

	30-07-2003 20:53									#12
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that would be no proof, actually. who would be there to record that NO?

	30-07-2003 20:53									#13
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this is just rediculous. the "victim" should have considered it before hand. (not counting extreme situations, in which one party suddenly becomes abbusive during sex, or things of that sort).

	30-07-2003 21:01									#14
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This law only codifies the way it should be .. . Nobody EVER gives up their right to control their own body.

The problem of proof is real but is little different than any date rape case where the man claims consent and the physical evidence shows no force. Its ALWAYS he said-she said.

	30-07-2003 21:04									#15
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SM is looking to stir trouble, as always, I see.

	30-07-2003 21:05									#16
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they need a law for blokes who go out on the lash.

'yeah your honour, she looked stunning at the club, but when i woke up the next morning, ****ing hell...'

	30-07-2003 21:11									#17
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney they need a law for blokes who go out on the lash. 'yeah your honour, she looked stunning at the club, but when i woke up the next morning, ****ing hell...'

Seriously though, there are times you can't remember anything, what if you were accused and had no recollection?

Say her boyfriend found out later and that was her only 'face saver'?

	30-07-2003 21:16									#18
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BUT, I READ THE TEXT AGAIN, AND THIS IS NOT RIGHT!

quote: The law was inspired by a California case involving two 17-year-olds who had sex at a party. The girl changed her mind about having sex, but the boy did not stop immediately. He was charged with rape, and it took years for the courts to decide that he could be found guilty under California law. The California Supreme Court ruled in January that a man can be convicted if a woman first consents but later asks him to stop.

He didn't stop immediately and that's called rape? that's stupid!

	30-07-2003 21:36									#19
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course it's stupid. women

	30-07-2003 21:38									#20
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But it doesn't say whether or not he stopped at all until he had gotten himself off, nor how long he went after she said to stop. If it was a few seconds, yeah it's ridiculous. But if he went on for several minutes until he finally stopped, that's inexcusable.

	30-07-2003 21:39									#21
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Regardless of the legal position, any man continuing to inflict himself on a woman who has clearly stopped consenting to it should be taken outside and given a damned good kicking.

	30-07-2003 21:41									#22
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they would not have written "immediately" if he continued for a couple of minutes.

	30-07-2003 21:50									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel they would not have written "immediately" if he continued for a couple of minutes.

Tell me more about these mind reading powers of yours... will I be rich?

	30-07-2003 21:52									#24
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I wonder if the next step is to allow women to change their minds afterwards. The sex wasn't good, so I change my mind. It was rape!

	30-07-2003 21:53									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Regardless of the legal position, any man continuing to inflict himself on a woman who has clearly stopped consenting to it should be taken outside and given a damned good kicking.

I'd give a guy a 10-15 second window for letting it sink in. If he's in a rhythm and really enjoying himself, it might take a few seconds for his brain to register (due to the lack of blood in that area during that time).

	30-07-2003 21:53									#26
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I think all laws should be re-written to take into account this new enlightenment.

	30-07-2003 21:57									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I wonder if the next step is to allow women to change their minds afterwards. The sex wasn't good, so I change my mind. It was rape!

So you don't think a woman (or man, for that matter) has the right to change her mind during the act?

	30-07-2003 21:57									#28
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Can they change their mind AFTER sex?

Just give it a few years.

	30-07-2003 21:58									#29
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It's not stupid it all. Look at the reverse situation.

She consents at first, then decides to change her mind (which she's within her rights as a human being to do), but because he says, whatever and keeps going. She already consented.

Furthermore, at where would you draw the line: five seconds, ten? So it's okay to rape a person if it's not for very long? "Your honor, my client can't possibly be guilty because he came in five seconds. The only thing he's guilty of is being a lousy lover." You cannot draw a reasonable line except at the instant of the withdrawl of consent. Anything else would very likely fail constitutional muster.

	30-07-2003 22:00									#30
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This seems impossible to improve, unless there was an audio or video recording of this...