30-07-2003 21:05									#1
	View of Toledo Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We should get a view of toldeo before we attack next turn. Even if it is old it will tell much. In general I was thinking during vox's or lego's turn.
Also om a side not ehow is lego reacting to the war. Any chance of them financing us to hold off GS.
Aggie

	30-07-2003 22:08									#2
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The problem is money. We really don't have a whole lot of it.

Also... not sure if Vox or Lego has an embassy with GS... actually I think Vox does. But its the $$. I informally asked for a quickie poll in some thread last turn and most people would rather rush a Rider than investigate Toledo.

Having said that, what are other opinions?

	30-07-2003 22:16									#3
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Investigate Toledo.

	30-07-2003 22:17									#4
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Well I am unsure but could perhaps we get a loan from Lego for something else later. Also I have noticed something, we can get to New madrid next turn. Of course this depends on our luck etc at toledo. But at least it is possible.
Aggie

	31-07-2003 04:05									#5
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Get a view .. borrow from Lego

	31-07-2003 06:13									#6
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Just a minute here... how are we going to change our plans if there are 5 knights compared to 2 or 3? If you guys want Vox to investigate Toledo too we are going to have some serious $ problems.

(definatly no rushes, for anything)

	31-07-2003 06:21									#7
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There was that massive drop off of troops by GS in the south though, if their not in New Madrid then they are somewhere between New Madrid and Toledo.

I have no idea what type of units they were, so if they were all Knights there may be 12+ units in Toledo. In which case I would rather pillage than mount a suicide attack on Toledo's walls.

	31-07-2003 06:24									#8
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See what Lego can do for us...
They want to help .. this is going to be a very critical attack for us.

If it fails, because we underestimated how many units GS had in there... then our RP campaign is over.
We cannot send any more units south, because we have to protect our own borders.

The life of every rider we have in the south has now become critical. we cannot afford to throw them away.
This is for ND's sake as much as ours.

	31-07-2003 08:02									#9
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There's a leeetle problem about investigating. When investigating this turn by either Vox or Lego, this will not prevent GS from moving in units their turn which is before ours. So, perhaps we get a nice empty shot of Toledo, that still doesn't avoid a surprise once we assault it since GS could have moved troops after the shot was taken.

So, time to think...

	31-07-2003 09:26									#10
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Thats the thing about it, but unfortunately I don't think we have a choice. The only alternative would be to send a scout s to see if any forces in the open. An attack on a fortified toledo could be a disaster. The good news is they can probably only effectively defend on city. We could defend the approaches from the south and then get a view between next turn and the following turn.Then we would be assured of no extra troops. but I fear it could cost us an advantage if gs not yet mobilized here. On the other hand rushing against the defenses of toledo and being defeated could spell doom.
My gut is that it isn't heavily defended, but that is just an instinct. The wise course is to get a view between this and next turn after we have isolated toledo, then attack.
Aggie

	31-07-2003 09:59									#11
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ok, unless GS has ALL their galleys in the south, they couldn't have ferried more than say, 10 troops in their first landing. If all 10 are knights then there's a chance we might squander our stack attacking (and perhaps destroying) their mobile force, yet paving the way for a Med Inf assault with us having no forces to take.

Now look at it this way: why did RP gift New Madrid when it was not threatened? Then it was obvious because it was to be used as a ferry point, however, there are roads alongside it which does not impede movement outside the city. Then why did RP gift it? Perhaps because Toledo is but a ruse, and the truly defended city is New Madrid, a city GS probably asked to keep.

	31-07-2003 10:30									#12
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I fully think that GS CANNOT protect both cities. So if it were to loose one, which would it prefer?

Toledo will be lightly defended because New Madrid is of far greater value to GS since it is on the coast. I can see 2 knights being placed there to give the impression that it is defended. Two knights fortified in a city with barracks and a wall is a very formidable defense. There will be no retreating from an assult such as this.I can see us loosing 4 Riders taking the "easy" target of Toledo. All this while GS rush buys a wall in New Madrid.

	31-07-2003 10:52									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Again.. the riders we have south are the only ones we will ever have there. Once their gone, ND will have to fight RP by themselves.

Protecting their lives must be done.
And this means spending money to investigate.


IMO, GS know we can get Madrid yet.
They will fortify Toledo with as much as they can, and hope we attack it. (They did this against Vox)

If we turn to take Madrid, they will attack us and/or move their knights back.

	31-07-2003 18:55									#14
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Sent to some Voxians:

Hi,

During your current turn you have been asked by us to investigate Zaragossa, and given 100 gold to do so. We as the Glory of War would appreciate if you could investigate the GS city of Toledo also. We are sorry we didn't send payment this turn, but it has just been decided.

Panzer32

	01-08-2003 01:12									#15
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From Vox:

(guess I forgot to post it)

quote: Unfortunately, the game will not let me investigate anything. My guess is we are not allowed to use espionage while in anarchy. It will have to wait for two more turns. Sorry. I am returning the money. I almost considered keeping it to pay most of what GoW owes us but that is not why the money was sent.

	01-08-2003 01:13									#16
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What money do we owe Vox?

	01-08-2003 01:32									#17
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb What money do we owe Vox?

nothing, its just that they feel screwed out of Engineering (35g)