01-08-2003 16:37									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The problem is I now have this strange mix of the Fat Cow thumb nail, Winston and John Lennon stuck in my minds eye. Bizarre.

I'll take the John Lennon component and you can keep the rest, thanks.

quote: I meant to mention it last time actually – how about foreign talent. Buck Shelford is available I believe. A man who can play on after having a happy sack stitched up could be just what the Wallaby coaching set up needs right now.

I can just imagine the reaction if a foreigner were appointed, nutless or otherwise.

quote: I am sure you are right. The front row is definitely the problem you identified it as. I think playing the two opensides wasn’t a disaster but I can’t help but feel a more physical presence like Owen would help get that ball being carried forward.

Yes, that's one of the downsides of having two opensides. OTOH, there are plenty of other brutes in the team capable of taking it forward and they haven't been.

quote: Just like World+Dog is at the moment. JJH was unlucky in suffering a serious injury fairly soon after his much hyped move – but it’s very clear he was never really going to worry Wallaby selectors even if he had stayed fit down there – a very over hyped player.

He made an impression for NSW, but it wasn't as if he was being touted as the next great thing. There were plenty of good players in front of him. The ARU cracked the sh*ts more on principle, as I recall.

quote: I rather suspected chemicals were involved after that amazing little Anglo-French patriotic montage he posted the other day.

I wonder if you can overdose on Viagra.

quote: Is that margin a start of 9.5 to the Wallabies? Or have I misread that? The Wallabies are my favourites for the home leg so a start for them makes a Bok bet worthless? As Finbar says we need to make it worthwhile for punters to back both sides or no one wins anything.

No, it was 9.5 to the Boks. They've made another six changes. But I don't know if anyone will invest on the Boks with a 9.5 start. Perhaps someone will.

quote: Public locker rooms as found in many a Park perhaps?

quote: As far as the betting goes Finbar how about we reset after the Tri-nations concludes – giving everyone a fresh pot ready for the Warm up games and RWC itself?

Is there a good reason to reset? I don't mind either way, and I'm the one looking like going out backwards.

	01-08-2003 16:40									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Havak As the old try line gag has been recycled here is another old favourite I got sent again this week.

A lot funnier than the try line gag.

	01-08-2003 18:59									#33
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John Lennon it is then.

quote: I can just imagine the reaction if a foreigner were appointed, nutless or otherwise.

Yes even with my brief experience of your homeland I think I can anticipate what the reaction might be.

quote: OTOH, there are plenty of other brutes in the team capable of taking it forward and they haven't been.

The locks are certainly not performing in this regard – Kefu Snr has the odd try but not enough? What you need I hate to say is a Hilly, a Jonno or a Dally. A Moody would work wonders for you.

quote: The ARU cracked the sh*ts more on principle, as I recall.

And the IRB ruling was basically “don’t tell other Unions to do as you say not as you yourself do” I believe?

quote: I wonder if you can overdose on Viagra.

Strangely I have no great desire to find out.

quote: But I don't know if anyone will invest on the Boks with a 9.5 start. Perhaps someone will.

They did really well against you last time – disrupting the forward hugely. But this is a Wallaby side burning with shame and on home ground – the margin is nowhere near enough to tempt me to bet on the Boks.

quote: Is there a good reason to reset? I don't mind either way, and I'm the one looking like going out backwards.

No compelling reason to reset for me – though I don’t mind if we do. I think people skipping betting on an entire tournament (or two) and sitting on pots of gold should possible be nationalised by the consortium though?

quote: A lot funnier than the try line gag.

The England pay off line used to be “complain that everyone else beats them at it” of course. The new line has less comic impact - after all only SH types have the mistaken impression the ABs are better.

*Ding Ding* round three – Kiwis to come out swinging again.

	01-08-2003 19:41									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Havak John Lennon it is then.

My hero was murdered on my wedding anniversary. The marriage only lasted another 18 months. There's a message in there somewhere.

quote: They did really well against you last time – disrupting the forward hugely. But this is a Wallaby side burning with shame and on home ground – the margin is nowhere near enough to tempt me to bet on the Boks.

That's my point. Anyway, I think we left it too late to organise a margin. You and Frozzy distracted everyone with your duelling salvos.

quote: No compelling reason to reset for me – though I don’t mind if we do. I think people skipping betting on an entire tournament (or two) and sitting on pots of gold should possible be nationalised by the consortium though?

I still maintain that Andydog is Tamerlin's DL and should be nationalised forthwith.

	01-08-2003 19:55									#35
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quote: There's a message in there somewhere.

It reads to me as “don’t get married”. I’ll explain that Finbar told me not to.

quote: You and Frozzy distracted everyone with your duelling salvos.

What duelling salvos?

quote: I still maintain that Andydog is Tamerlin's DL and should be nationalised forthwith.

He never did deny this one did he?

	02-08-2003 01:33									#36
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Finally found that trhead...

quote: The French will declare they have new scientific evidence that the opposition are in fact all mad. They will then park lorries across the halfway line, let sheep loose in the opposition half and burn the officials.

Actually, I know one French team which performs a kind of haka before their matches. Thing is, that peculiar form of Haka requires the 15 players to have a glass with whatever alcoholized beverage they like most (usually beer, probably 'cause it's lighter than wine). The words are not particularly terrifying, nor is the dance, but they may still cripple the enemy team, since it is quite hard not to laugh. Maybe I should write Laporte so he could learn from them.

Havak, do you have to quote Will "I will not pass the ball" Carling? Even if he's saying sensible things?

	02-08-2003 05:15									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It reads to me as “don’t get married”. I’ll explain that Finbar told me not to.

No, it reads as "don't get married if one of the century's more interesting people is going to be assassinated on your eighth wedding anniversary for it shall doom the marriage". Given that there are no interesting people in this century, and nor are there likely to be, you're not off the hook. Sorry.

quote: He never did deny this one did he?

Still working through the paydirt he hit in the Paris warehouse.

	02-08-2003 05:17									#38
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Havak, do you have to quote Will "I will not pass the ball" Carling? Even if he's saying sensible things?

Havak and Carling are kindred spirits. Havak never once passed the ball in his tighthead days.

	02-08-2003 09:27									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Havak This seems a flawed argument. People travel a lot therefore they should be able to choose what nationality they are on some kind of ad hoc fast track basis? I went to Australia two years ago – I’ve never been capped for England – can I put myself up for Wallaby selection?

If you stayed for a couple of years (current IRB requirements IIRC?) and were granted Australian citizenship and were willing to give up future eligibility to play for England? Absolutely.
Thats a lot of ifs there already.

quote: But you see under my suggestion for eligibility he would still be able to play for us because the lad was born in England. Also under my suggestion he could also choose to be Scottish should he so wish (were he insane enough!). Your analogy would catch me out more if he had been born in Scotland to Scottish parents then moved south at 16 to play for Newcastle and from thence get selected for England. In such a scenario I would expect him to wait and qualify however much it harmed England – seven whole years so he would be 23 before he could play (the age he is now bizarrely enough).

I was under the impression that for one to be eligible to play for, Scotland for example, one had to actually reside there for a considerable period as well - thus effectively giving up any right to play for England, for example, until he'd spent the required time in residence in England after leaving Scotland?

My whole point about people travelling more is basically a reference to the fact that NZ is just over 160 years old. England, as it stands now is pretty much nearly 1000. NZ has, effectively, a far higher population growth rate per capita than does England - largely due to immigration.
Because of the rather relaxed immigration laws wrt other Pacific Island nations (not quite as non-existent as between Aus-NZ whereby one can change country at will 3 times a day if one wishes, but still fairly relaxed) many of said Pacific Islanders, who are regarded as having NZ citizenship by the rest of the country, wouldn't technically qualify under a new set of laws imposed from without.
Similarly, by virtue of having resided in NZ on and off over a period of years, they are probably not technically eligible to play for their birth country either.
Would you really wish to condemn 10% of NZ's population to dreary rugbyless lives? Think of the children!

**Gets down off his huge soapbox which is threatening to collapse at any moment. **

I understand your wish to prevent the same sort of professional merry-go-round that dominates many club-level sports from occurring in National teams, but trying to implement a single system on a number of entities with completely different cultural/legal structures isn't a good way to do it IMO.

quote: The England pay off line used to be “complain that everyone else beats them at it” of course. The new line has less comic impact - after all only SH types have the mistaken impression the ABs are better. *Ding Ding* round three – Kiwis to come out swinging again.

Round three won't start until the ME checks out that concussion of yours old chap.

quote: Is that margin a start of 9.5 to the Wallabies? Or have I misread that? The Wallabies are my favourites for the home leg so a start for them makes a Bok bet worthless?

Erm, it was supposed to be. I have a knack for putting things in a rather muddled fashion lately. I also imagined that there might be other suggestions.
It looks like a no-go in any event as the game starts in < 4 hours.

	03-08-2003 06:27									#40
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Wallabies 29 -d- Springboks 9

Well, a step in the right direction for the Wallabies, with evidence of system and structure. Good to see Matt Rogers attacking and defending well at outside centre, and very good to see Lote Tuquiri revealing what he's capable of when given an ounce of opportunity. Brendan Cannon turned in another very strong effort, and Phil Waugh constantly amazes me. Where on earth does he get the energy? If he doesn't kill himself with his courage, and if his game continues to develop the way it is, he could end up one of the great flankers.

Gregan lifted his game when he had to - notice how few times he stepped backwards? notice how much closer the backline was aligned? - and he showed some of the variety of old, even if some of the choices were dubious. And I don't mean the choice not to kick for goal on half time. Sure it was a Test match, sure the easy three points would have put them in front, but there's a bigger picture called the World Cup, our set plays have been one of our major weaknesses, and we need all the practice under pressure we can get.

The downsides - Steve Larkham continues to struggle, particularly with his field kicking; Noriega is now a liability in the front row and wouldn't be in the team if there were a replacement available; George Smith's move to blindside has diminished his effectiveness; and the forwards, while better than last week, still aren't generating the necessary drive.

Everything is relative. We played 150% better than we did against them in South Africa, which is great. The real test, though, will be against the ABs in two weeks time. Last night's effort wouldn't have beaten the ABs, so we're going to have to improve even more.

The biggest downside of the match, of course, was the Boks' foul tactics. Kempson's cowardly late hit on Kefu defies description. Watch the replay and you'll notice he pats Kefu just after he hits the ground as if to say "no hard feelings". Then watch the replay as Kefu is driven off the ground on the MediCab - Kempson, embarrassed, obviously feeling guilty, joins in the crowd's sympathetic applause for Kefu. Kempson was cited. The only question has to be the length of the suspension.

Also cited was reserve lock Botha for biting and eye-gouging Brendan Cannon. How far this charge gets depends, I suppose, on the available video evidence.

Edit. I've since seen footage of the Botha-Cannon incident. The bite is plain to see, the eye-gouging less so.

Coach Straeuli, typically, denied any foul play, demanding the Australians back up their claims with evidence. The video evidence that will sink Kempson should do for starters. Straeuli also claimed that the team came with the intention of playing fair rugby. The Bok's flanker, van Niekerk, who, prior to the match, boasted that he was looking forward to thumping some Wallabies, puts paid to that. Corne Krige has claimed that he saw nothing untoward on the field and that he would definitely not encourage his players to adopt foul tactics. Turn it up, Corne, the only surprise was that you weren't leading the charge. Which, surprisingly, he wasn't.

Last edited by finbar on 03-08-2003 at 13:14

	03-08-2003 06:50									#41
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If my mathmatics are not wrong, New Zealand has won the Tri-Nations before the New Zealand legs.

NZL: 10 pts
RSA: 4pts
AUS: 4pts.

	03-08-2003 07:29									#42
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The Wallabies have 5 points because they picked up a bonus point against the Boks in South Africa. Theoretically, the Wallabies could win the Tri Nations, but it would require:

1. The ABs to lose both remaining matches;

2. The ABs not to pick up any bonus points;

3. The Wallabies to score 31 points - one point more than the current points differential between them and the ABs - against the ABs plus whatever the ABs score against the Boks and against the Wallabies. For example, if the ABs score 50 against the Boks, and 30 against the Wallabies, the Wallabies have to score 111 points against the ABs to win the Tri Nations by one point on points differential.

Theoretically, you're wrong. In every other sense, you're quite right.

	03-08-2003 07:45									#43
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How do you get bonus points then?

I thought it was 4 tries or losing by less than 7, ala Super 12?

	03-08-2003 08:47									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy How do you get bonus points then? I thought it was 4 tries or losing by less than 7, ala Super 12?

It is. We lost 22-26 to the Boks in South Africa, fewer than 7, so it's a bonus point. The ABs have picked up their two bonus points for twice scoring more than four tries.

	04-08-2003 03:52									#45
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The SANZAR judiciary strikes again. Kempson suspended for 4 weeks for the late high shot on Kefu, Botha suspended for 8 weeks for eye-gouging Brendan Cannon. In reality, both suspensions amount to one week bans from international rugby because the Boks play only one Test - next week against the ABs - during the period of the suspensions and prior to the World Cup.

For some bizarre reason, the biting (of Cannon) charge wasn't pursued because the biter apparently couldn't be identified. It's bizarre because Cannon has made it perfectly clear that the gouging followed as a direct result of him retaliating after being bitten. Ergo, Botha eye-gouged Cannon after he bit him. Presumably there was video evidence of the gouging but not the biting. The photo in this morning's press of the bitemark on Cannon's shoulder is ugly indeed. Botha obviously had a fine old chew and suck.

Still, at least some action has now been taken against them, unlike their escape after their foul efforts against England at Twickers last year. Coach Straeuli, typically, maintains the foul play is a figment of people's imaginations. Corne Krige - publicly identified by George Gregan as the ringleader - also denies any deliberate foul play. Accused of spitting, Krige denies it, before acknowledging he did spit to clear his mouth of blood, that some of it landed on Phil Waugh, for which he immediately apologised.

Hands up anyone who wants to be on the bottom of a ruck next time the Wallabies play the Boks?

	04-08-2003 13:14									#46
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That type of Haka does sound very appropriately French LdiCesare.

As for the signature I hadn’t looked at it in a while – I’ll see if I can trawl something else up soon.

quote: Given that there are no interesting people in this century, and nor are there likely to be, you're not off the hook. Sorry.

Damn – I thought I had the perfect wriggle.

quote: Thats a lot of ifs there already.

Not significant ones however – the sheer number of tourists in the Wallaby squad prove that.

quote: I was under the impression that for one to be eligible to play for, Scotland for example, one had to actually reside there for a considerable period as well

Not under current IRB eligibility criteria – just Google Brendan Laney or Gleason and you’ll see what I mean. Grandparentage is enough, birth in a country is sufficient. It’s pretty messy and would benefit from some tidying up.

quote: Would you really wish to condemn 10% of NZ's population to dreary rugbyless lives? Think of the children!

As an Englishman I wouldn’t dream of this of course. In fact for all those poor souls who no longer qualify for you after the changes I think we should offer them all fast track English citizenship instead.

I take your point about immigration per capita – but this isn’t a country with a static population either – we have continued and extensive immigration and the ethnics balance of the country is changing over time. Rugby hasn’t touched the hearts of certain minorities yet but I’m sure it will.

quote: trying to implement a single system on a number of entities with completely different cultural/legal structures isn't a good way to do it IMO.

Ah but there’s the problem with any international sport – the governing bodies have to walk this tightrope all the time.

It must be time to trot out an outrageous statement then. We gave the sport to the world, I think we should set the laws – lets get rid of the IRB and appoint the RFU to the job – and then god help you all.

On the plus side you would soon then realise why English rugby took so long to get organised and competitive despite it’s (comparatively) huge resource base.

quote: Round three won't start until the ME checks out that concussion of yours old chap.

I won’t deny the grey matter has swum around on occasion. Some of that was even rugger related.

As for the weekends game yes it was thoroughly enjoyable. Phil Waugh has made the Seven jersey his own – he looks more and more like Neil Back to me with every game as it is like he is glued to the ball. Sailor actually learned form the last game and let people land before nailing them – he also takes a hell of a lot of stopping and I think he is going to grow into a real asset for the Wallabies on that basis alone – he disrupts defensive patterns because it takes more than one man to routinely stop him.

As for the less savoury aspects – I was so disappointed in them. I thought after the last few cleaner games they were starting to put this behind them. The Kempson hit was disgusting – there’s no way he can even defend that as it was hardly marginal mis-timing.

Krige and Straeuli remind me of Arsene Wenger – the manager of soccer side Arsenal here. It’s become a running joke that if one of his players was involved in an incident that he ‘never saw it’. Well that’s the problem with TV isn’t it – it is a fairly good neutral witness.

I so hope they clean it up for the visit to NZ.

quote: In reality, both suspensions amount to one week bans from international rugby because the Boks play only one Test - next week against the ABs - during the period of the suspensions and prior to the World Cup.

Do you remember how unhappy I was with McCraes six week suspension in which he missed not one game because it was given in the Aussie close season? The authorities get this wrong time and time again.

quote: Hands up anyone who wants to be on the bottom of a ruck next time the Wallabies play the Boks?

Actually when the second row took Wilko very late in November Rudi even claimed his man was ‘trying to pull out of the tackle’ – what tackle? He shoulder charged Wilko whilst the lad was in the air. I don’t know if he is intellectually challenged or if he really believes the nonsense he spouts.

I would like to hear the views of paradox on the Boks current tendency to indulge in such play – but I understand he may not be happy we are laying into his side on this one.

	04-08-2003 16:05									#47
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aahh there you guys are.. still going i see! Top stuff.

quote: Coach Straeuli, typically, maintains the foul play is a figment of people's imaginations

Aye, that's 2 games in 6 months where the saffess have totally lost discipline, and yet the coach still denies there's a problem. The only reason Krige wasn't suspended after the England game was that player he concussed was his own. The SA public are baying for blood but SARFU won't make any changes until after the WC. I'll put a tenner on the fact neither Krige or Straeuli will be around after the WC.

Besides surely Botha knows better, rump or thigh is always far more tender and tastier than shoulder cuts.

	04-08-2003 17:58									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It must be time to trot out an outrageous statement then. We gave the sport to the world, I think we should set the laws – lets get rid of the IRB and appoint the RFU to the job – and then god help you all.

You gave cricket to the world, too. Nice to see you can win at one of them.

quote: Phil Waugh has made the Seven jersey his own – he looks more and more like Neil Back to me with every game as it is like he is glued to the ball.

Hopefully Phil will keep his hair, though.

quote: Sailor actually learned form the last game and let people land before nailing them – he also takes a hell of a lot of stopping and I think he is going to grow into a real asset for the Wallabies on that basis alone – he disrupts defensive patterns because it takes more than one man to routinely stop him.

Yes, sort of a poor man's Lomu in many ways. Nowhere near as devastating in attack but just as suspect in defence.

quote: As for the less savoury aspects – I was so disappointed in them. I thought after the last few cleaner games they were starting to put this behind them. The Kempson hit was disgusting – there’s no way he can even defend that as it was hardly marginal mis-timing.

The Twickers atrocities aside, they seem to save it for us.

quote: I so hope they clean it up for the visit to NZ.

It's hard to fathom the logic behind their actions. If there is any. One would think they'd adopt the tactics in an attempt to drag a superior team down to their level. In which case, they're likely to do it against the ABs. OTOH, they will struggle to catch most of them to bite, punch or gouge them.

quote: Do you remember how unhappy I was with McCraes six week suspension in which he missed not one game because it was given in the Aussie close season? The authorities get this wrong time and time again.

It's ridiculous. It renders the punishment meaningless. The penalty should be specific - x weeks and/or x rep matches.

quote: Actually when the second row took Wilko very late in November Rudi even claimed his man was ‘trying to pull out of the tackle’ – what tackle? He shoulder charged Wilko whilst the lad was in the air. I don’t know if he is intellectually challenged or if he really believes the nonsense he spouts.

Bloodyminded, I think. Revealed in his selection policies.

	04-08-2003 18:01									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog aahh there you guys are.. still going i see! Top stuff.

And we've voted to nationalise your Civ Gold funds unless you hurry up and start betting again!

quote: I'll put a tenner on the fact neither Krige or Straeuli will be around after the WC.

I'll have a tenner on Krige being around but not Straeuli.

quote: Besides surely Botha knows better, rump or thigh is always far more tender and tastier than shoulder cuts.

There isn't a tender or tasy square millimetre on a front rower. Ask Havak.

	04-08-2003 18:15									#50
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Just posting our Bank A/c here for safekeeping. And to embarrass Andydog!

Andydog 286.5
Bearcat 80.5
Caligastia 110.5
finbar 14.5
Frozzy 104
Havak 88.05
Journeyman 122.5
LDiCesares 152.3
Mickeyj 143.5
NeoStar 114
ravagon 90.25
redbull 80
Tamerlin 59.3

	04-08-2003 18:26									#51
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quote: Just posting our Bank A/c here for safekeeping. And to embarrass Andydog!

14.5? Is that all you have left mate? Sorry but can you just remind us why it's me that should be embarrassed?

Getting back to the saffee discipline, should this continue, surely there has to be some sort of formula introduced for suspension? I think it is criminal that these guys effectively miss one test game - do things like that off a rugby field and you'd be locked up for 3 months. Mistakes I can accept, but blatant and deliberate misconduct surely must be taken to another level. Who knows, I just hope that everyone takes note and it doesn't happen again. I was sick to the stomach watching Kefu being carried off with a neck brace.

	04-08-2003 18:30									#52
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quote: You gave cricket to the world, too. Nice to see you can win at one of them.

It’s a good job they declared when they did Finbar – we could have bowled all five days and never got them all out.

The only real positive from the entire second test was ‘Freddy’ Flintoffs entertaining knock of 142 (five sixes included) – during which he totally split a bat in two down it’s length.

Smith seems to have the entire England side bamboozled – Hussein dropped him whilst he was in single figures and they never looked close to troubling him again until Anderson finally sneaked through his guard well after it was too late to matter.

quote: Hopefully Phil will keep his hair, though.

Not a chance – at Waughy’s age Backy had flowing golden locks and (catalogue) model looks. At least Phil doesn’t need to worry about losing the latter.

quote: Nowhere near as devastating in attack but just as suspect in defence.

Given him time – he has improved beyond all recognition in just two years. Ah – that’s actually not that good is it?

quote: The Twickers atrocities aside, they seem to save it for us.

Although it is safe to say our group game with them will be interesting given Krige promised ‘retribution’ after last November’s game. Spirit of the game alive and well with there I see.

quote: In which case, they're likely to do it against the ABs

It will be truly fascinating to see how they react if, as we suspect, the ABs start to build a lead.

quote: It's ridiculous. It renders the punishment meaningless. The penalty should be specific - x weeks and/or x rep matches.

Matches has to be the way to go with it I think.

quote: Bloodyminded, I think. Revealed in his selection policies.

It takes a very ‘special’ coach to fail as thoroughly as he did at Welsh club level so you may be right.

quote: There isn't a tender or tasy square millimetre on a front rower. Ask Havak.

There’s nothing but gristle.

Wow – Andydog is rich – share the wealth man!!

	04-08-2003 18:37									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog 14.5? Is that all you have left mate? Sorry but can you just remind us why it's me that should be embarrassed?

Because, in days of yore, gamblers who accumulated funds and sat on them were carted off to the nearest tree and hanged!

quote: Getting back to the saffee discipline, should this continue, sure there has to be some sort of formula introduced for suspension? I think it is criminal that these guys effectively miss one test game - do things like that off a rugby field and you'd be locked up for 3 months. Mistakes I can accept, but blatant and deliberate misconduct surely must be taken to another level. Who knows, I just hope that everyone takes note and it doesn't happen again. I was sick to the stomach watching Kefu being carried off with a neck brace.

Yes, that was Havak's point. Duncan Macrae - ex-Waratah halfback - benefited from the same judiciary stupidity after he went berko punching on the Lions tour here. He got, from memory, six weeks but it fell largely in the off season. BTW, did you notice Kempson - embarrassed and guilty - joining in the crowd's sympathetic applause when Kefu was being carried off? Kempson is a serial offender. I wonder, in fact, if the ramifications of the incident will cause him to think about his methods?

	04-08-2003 19:10									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It’s a good job they declared when they did Finbar – we could have bowled all five days and never got them all out. The only real positive from the entire second test was ‘Freddy’ Flintoffs entertaining knock of 142 (five sixes included) – during which he totally split a bat in two down it’s length. Smith seems to have the entire England side bamboozled – Hussein dropped him whilst he was in single figures and they never looked close to troubling him again until Anderson finally sneaked through his guard well after it was too late to matter.

Yes, I've watched quite a bit of both matches. The time difference works out rather nicely letting me hop into bed and watch a couple of hours. It was good to see Flintoff finally produce the goods, even if in a relatively pressure-free situation. He had nothing to lose. He's always seemed to me to be a big, strapping chap living on his potential.

Exactly what that Yorkshireman - McGrath? - is doing in the team, I'm not sure. Trescothick's lack of footwork will always be found out by any half-decent bowler prepared to persist on a line across his body. Trouble is, he will come out and score heavily against sub-standard bowling and convince everyone he's top class. And Vaughn needs his backside kicked for a couple of irresponsible dismissals.

From what I saw, Smith - well, the lot of them - fed off some very average bowling. It's what let them down out here. Unless you've got blinding speed, you've got to be able to put it on the same spot ball after ball, building and maintaining pressure.

quote: Not a chance – at Waughy’s age Backy had flowing golden locks and (catalogue) model looks. At least Phil doesn’t need to worry about losing the latter.

He does look a bit like the dog that chased the car that stopped suddenly. Pity that George Smith has suffered in the shift to blindside, though. He tries hard - as ever - but looks a bit lost.

quote: Given him time – he has improved beyond all recognition in just two years. Ah – that’s actually not that good is it?

Look, even I've conceded he's improved. Out of sight. And in about three months, actually, because his S12 season was full of the same old blunders. He's gone from a rugby ninny to someone whom, it appears anyway, is starting to think in rugby terms. I think it's a case of Eddie having confidence in him, encouraging him, and it paying off. Though I doubt anyone will ever turn him into a reliable defender. Lote Toquiri, though, IMHO, is the superior talent.

quote: Although it is safe to say our group game with them will be interesting given Krige promised ‘retribution’ after last November’s game. Spirit of the game alive and well with there I see. It will be truly fascinating to see how they react if, as we suspect, the ABs start to build a lead.

Well, it depends on how things settle after last Saturday night. If the coach and skipper are serious in their denials, presumably the same things will go on happening, including during the World Cup. Unless there's something going on behind the scenes we don't know about, you have to wonder why the Bok hierarchy back at home has been so quiet.

Edit. Good grief. I was just reading on Planet Rugby about the Currie Cup match on the weekend between Western Province and the Lions. A record six yellow cards - one of which became a red when the carded player returned to the field and immediately started throwing punches right in front of the ref! Unsurprisingly, the Bok ref condemned the lack of discipline in South African rugby.

quote: Wow – Andydog is rich – share the wealth man!!

Methinks Denis Thatcher's gin-sodden spirit has entered Andydog's body!

	04-08-2003 19:25									#55
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quote: Because, in days of yore, gamblers who accumulated funds and sat on them were carted off to the nearest tree and hanged!

You should thank me big guy - how much would i be sitting on right now had i bet, as usual, on the ABs?

quote: Wow – Andydog is rich – share the wealth man!!

I'll be betting mate. Btw, you might as well flag MickeyJ's gold. He's still travelling - I doubt you'll see him back here.

quote: BTW, did you notice Kempson - embarrassed and guilty - joining in the crowd's sympathetic applause when Kefu was being carried off? Kempson is a serial offender. I wonder, in fact, if the ramifications of the incident will cause him to think about his methods?

I did notice Kempson clapping Kefu off, but the point is this: Serial offenders (and everyone knows who they are) just shouldn't be allowed to walk straight back on the park. I remember years ago a Richard Lowe incident - he broke Paul CArozza's nose after he scored a try, and then got suspended for 2 weeks.

There needs to be an international standard with grades of offences (like they have in League, i hesitate to mention). Then, maybe 2 club games = 1 international or Super 12 game, i.e. suspended for 8 weeks, you miss 4 internationals.

	05-08-2003 04:32									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog You should thank me big guy - how much would i be sitting on right now had i bet, as usual, on the ABs?

Yeah, go on, rub it in!

quote: I'll be betting mate. Btw, you might as well flag MickeyJ's gold. He's still travelling - I doubt you'll see him back here.

Goodoh. We'll nationalise him.

quote: I did notice Kempson clapping Kefu off, but the point is this: Serial offenders (and everyone knows who they are) just shouldn't be allowed to walk straight back on the park. I remember years ago a Richard Lowe incident - he broke Paul CArozza's nose after he scored a try, and then got suspended for 2 weeks.

Ah, the infamous Richard Loe. One of the all-time great thugs. If I recall, he also copped something like a year for eye-gouging a fellow AB in an NPC final and an even longer sentence for stomping a Wallaby head.

quote: There needs to be an international standard with grades of offences (like they have in League, i hesitate to mention). Then, maybe 2 club games = 1 international or Super 12 game, i.e. suspended for 8 weeks, you miss 4 internationals.

Couldn't agree more. Australian Rules does a similar thing, differentiating between premiership matches, pre-season tournament matches, etc.

The truly disturbing thing is that the Boks have flown out for New Zealand with the team's PR man saying that, a couple of regrettable incidents aside, and they arose from frustration, the Boks just play tough rugby, not sissy rugby. What's more, he said, they were looking forward to getting to New Zealand where they appreciate tough rugby. The extent of the self-delusion is mindboggling.

	05-08-2003 06:01									#57
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Sorry about the thread situation guys, I didn't get a chance to post while in pommyland.

Finbar:

quote: I think it was more that they missed Carlos' driving skills after he went off. They were suddenly much less potent, something that I'm sure wasn't lost on John Mitchell.

Yes, that's probably the case. Carter just doesn't have the experience of Spencer. He shows good potential though.

quote: The Wallabies? I'm not sure where they go from here. Sure, it didn't help that Wendell stupidly got himself carded, resulting in two AB tries while he was missing from the field. Brendan Cannon, BTW, should have gone for the same offence.

Yeah, I was going to mention that before. Another example of referee inconsistency. Wendell's looked worse, but both were equally dangerous.

quote: But Wendell's defensive weaknesses had already been exploited by Rokococo, so it's highly likely the AB tries would have happened regardless with Wendell still on the field. At least Cannon redeemed himself after last week's effort with good lineout throwing and a very strong game around the ground.

Wendell's problem seems to one of intelligence. The errors he makes are real no-brainers. Okay, so he came over from l*****, but if had done his homework he would have been aware of the no-tackle-in-the-air rule long ago.

	05-08-2003 06:56									#58
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quote: Sorry, mon ami, every scrum on Saturday night was contested. True, they didn't crouch locked like a couple of copulating dogs for forty minutes, but then there was rugby to be played.

Classic

	05-08-2003 07:05									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Sorry about the thread situation guys, I didn't get a chance to post while in pommyland.

You mean the Poms haven't got the internet yet? Gee, they've been going backwards since they lost the colonies.

quote: Wendell's problem seems to one of intelligence.

I think you've hit the nail right on the very, very thick cranium.

	05-08-2003 07:14									#60
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Havak

quote: A rudimentary background check shows Lord Rutherford had two British born parents which immediately qualifiy him with more right to be classed 'British' than any Fijian has to be an 'Aucklander'.

I reckon where you live most of your childhood has more bearing on your nationality than where you or your parents happen to be born.

Rutherford was as kiwi as they come.