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Felch is offline Felch
Prince
Germantown, Maryland
Sep 2001
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  Old Post 01-08-2003 18:07
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Kiwi solves Zeno's paradox and argues against Hawking Increase Your PM Length

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...c-gwi072703.php

quote:

Ground-breaking work in understanding of time
Mechanics, Zeno and Hawking undergo revision


A bold paper which has highly impressed some of the world's top physicists and been published in the August issue of Foundations of Physics Letters, seems set to change the way we think about the nature of time and its relationship to motion and classical and quantum mechanics. Much to the science world's astonishment, the work also appears to provide solutions to Zeno of Elea's famous motion paradoxes, almost 2500 years after they were originally conceived by the ancient Greek philosopher. In doing so, its unlikely author, who originally attended university for just 6 months, is drawing comparisons to Albert Einstein and beginning to field enquiries from some of the world's leading science media. This is contrast to being sniggered at by local physicists when he originally approached them with the work, and once aware it had been accepted for publication, one informing the journal of the author's lack of formal qualification in an attempt to have them reject it.

In the paper, "Time and Classical and Quantum Mechanics: Indeterminacy vs. Discontinuity", Peter Lynds, a 27 year old broadcasting school tutor from Wellington, New Zealand, establishes that there is a necessary trade off of all precisely determined physical values at a time, for their continuity through time, and in doing so, appears to throw age old assumptions about determined instantaneous physical magnitude and time on their heads. A number of other outstanding issues to do with time in physics are also addressed, including cosmology and an argument against the theory of Imaginary time by British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking.

"Author's work resembles Einstein's 1905 special theory of relativity", said a referee of the paper, while Andrei Khrennikov, Prof. of Applied Mathematics at Växjö University in Sweden and Director of ICMM, said, "I find this paper very interesting and important to clarify some fundamental aspects of classical and quantum physical formalisms. I think that the author of the paper did a very important investigation of the role of continuity of time in the standard physical models of dynamical processes." He then invited Lynds to take part in an international conference on the foundations of quantum theory in Sweden.

Another impressed with the work is Princeton physics great, and collaborator of both Albert Einstein and Richard Feynman, John Wheeler, who said he admired Lynds' "boldness", while noting that it had often been individuals Lynds' age that "had pushed the frontiers of physics forward in the past."

In contrast, an earlier referee had a different opinion of the controversial paper. "I have only read the first two sections as it is clear that the author's arguments are based on profound ignorance or misunderstanding of basic analysis and calculus. I'm afraid I am unwilling to waste any time reading further, and recommend terminal rejection."

Lynds' solution to the Achilles and the tortoise paradox, submitted to Philosophy of Science, helped explain the work. A tortoise challenges Achilles, the swift Greek warrior, to a race, gets a 10m head start, and says Achilles can never pass him. When Achilles has run 10m, the tortoise has moved a further metre. When Achilles has covered that metre, the tortoise has moved 10cm...and so on. It is impossible for Achilles to pass him. The paradox is that in reality, Achilles would easily do so. A similar paradox, called the Dichotomy, stipulates that you can never reach your goal, as in order to get there, you must firstly travel half of the distance. But once you've done that, you must still traverse half the remaining distance, and half again, and so on. What's more, you can't even get started, as to travel a certain distance, you must firstly travel half of that distance, and so on.

According to both ancient and present day physics, objects in motion have determined relative positions. Indeed, the physics of motion from Zeno to Newton and through to today take this assumption as given. Lynds says that the paradoxes arose because people assumed wrongly that objects in motion had determined positions at any instant in time, thus freezing the bodies motion static at that instant and enabling the impossible situation of the paradoxes to be derived. "There's no such thing as an instant in time or present moment in nature. It's something entirely subjective that we project onto the world around us. That is, it's the outcome of brain function and consciousness."

Rather than the historical mathematical proof provided in the 19th century of summing an infinite series of numbers to provide a finite whole, or in the case of another paradox called the Arrow, usually thought to be solved through functional mathematics and Weierstrass' "at-at" theory, Lynds' solution to all of the paradoxes lay in the realisation of the absence of an instant in time underlying a bodies motion and that its position was constantly changing over time and never determined. He comments, "With some thought it should become clear that no matter how small the time interval, or how slowly an object moves during that interval, it is still in motion and it's position is constantly changing, so it can't have a determined relative position at any time, whether during a interval, however small, or at an instant. Indeed, if it did, it couldn't be in motion."

Lynds also points out that in all cases a time value represents an interval on time, rather than an instant. "For example, if two separate events are measured to take place at either 1 hour or 10.00 seconds, these two values indicate the events occurred during the time intervals of 1 and 1.99999...hours and 10.00 and 10.0099999...seconds respectively." Consequently there is no precise moment where a moving object is at a particular point. From this he is able to produce a fairly straightforward resolution of the Arrow paradox, and more elaborate ones for the others based on the same reasoning. A prominent Oxford mathematician commented, "It's as astonishing, as it is unexpected, but he's right."

On the paradoxes Lynds said, "I guess one might infer that we've been a bit slow on the uptake, considering it's taken us so long to reach these conclusions. I don't think that's the case though. Rather that, in respect to an instant in time, I don't think it's surprising considering the obvious difficulty of seeing through something that you actually see and think with. Moreover, that with his deceivingly profound paradoxes, I think Zeno of Elea was a true visionary, and in a sense, 2500 years ahead of his time."

According to Lynds, through the derivation of the rest of physics, the absence of an instant in time and determined relative position, and consequently also velocity, necessarily means the absence of all other precisely determined physical magnitudes and values at a time, including space and time itself. He comments, "Naturally the parameter and boundary of their respective position and magnitude are naturally determinable up to the limits of possible measurement as stated by the general quantum hypothesis and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, but this indeterminacy in precise value is not a consequence of quantum uncertainty. What this illustrates is that in relation to indeterminacy in precise physical magnitude, the micro and macroscopic are inextricably linked, both being a part of the same parcel, rather than just a case of the former underlying and contributing to the latter."

Addressing the age old question of the reality of time, Lynds says the absence of an instant in time underlying a dynamical physical process also illustrates that there is no such thing as a physical progression or flow of time, as without a continuous progression through definite instants over an extended interval, there can be no progression. "This may seem somewhat counter-intuitive, but it's exactly what's required by nature to enable time (relative interval as indicated by a clock), motion and the continuity of a physical process to be possible." Intuition also seems to suggest that if there were not a physical progression of time, the entire universe would be frozen motionless at an instant, as though stuck on pause on a motion screen. But Lynds points out, "If the universe were frozen static at such an instant, this would be a precise static instant of time - time would be a physical quantity." Consequently Lynds says that it's due to natures very exclusion of a time as a fundamental physical quantity, that time as it is measured in physics, or relative interval, and as such, motion and physical continuity are possible in the first instance.

On the paper's cosmology content, Lynds says that it doesn't appear necessary for time to emerge or congeal out of the quantum foam and highly contorted space-time geometrys present preceding Planck scale just after the big bang, as has sometimes been hypothesized. "Continuity would be present and naturally inherent in practically all initial quantum states and configurations, rather than a specific few, or special one, regardless of how microscopic the scale."

Lynds continues that the cosmological proposal of imaginary time also isn't compatible with a consistent physical description, both as a consequence of this, and secondly, "because it's the relative order of events that's relevant, not the direction of time itself, as time doesn't go in any direction." Consequently it's meaningless for the order of a sequence of events to be imaginary, or at right angles, relative to another sequence of events. When approached about Lynds' arguments against his theory, Hawking failed to respond.

When asked how he had found academia and the challenge of following his ideas through, Lynds said it had been a struggle and that he'd sometimes found it extremely frustrating. "The work is somewhat unlikely, and that hasn't done me any favours. If someone has been aware of it, my seeming lack of qualification has sometimes been a hurdle too. I think quite a few physicists and philosophers have difficulty getting their heads around the topic of time properly as well. I'm not a big fan of quite a few aspects of academia, but I'd like to think that whats happened with the work is a good example of perseverance and a few other things eventually winning through. It's reassuring to know that happens."

Lynds said he had initially had discussions with Wellington mathematical physicist Chris Grigson. Prof. Grigson, now retired, said he remembered Lynds as determined. "I must say I thought the idea was hard to understand. He is theorising in an area that most people think is settled. Most people believe there are a succession of moments and that objects in motion have determined positions." Although Lynds remembers being frustrated with Grigson, and once standing at a blackboard explaining how simple it was and telling him to "hurry up and get it", Lynds says that, unlike some others, Prof. Grigson was still encouraging and would always make time to talk to him, even taking him into the staff cafeteria so they could continue talking physics. Like another now retired initial contact, the Australian philosopher of Science and internationally respected authority on time, Jack Smart, who would write Lynds "long thoughtful letters", they have since become friends, and Prof. Grigson follows Lynds' progress with great interest. "Academia needs more Chris Grigsons and Jack Smarts", said Lynds.

Although still controversial, judging by the response it has already received from some of science's leading lights, Lynds' work seems likely to establish him as a groundbreaking figure in respect to increasing our understanding of time in physics. It also seems likely to make his surname instantly associable with Zeno's paradoxes and their remarkably improbable solution almost 2500 years later.

Lynds' plans for the near future the publication of a paper on Zeno's paradoxes by themselves in the journal Philosophy of Science, and a paper relating time to consciousness. He also plans to explore his work further in connection to quantum mechanics and is hopeful others will do the same.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
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Mar 2001
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I'll skip the relevant chapter in Hawkings 'Universe in a Nutshell' then!

Az is offline Az
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 01-08-2003 18:29
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I hope they'll adress this in my QM course next simester. for now, I'd rather not ponder it.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 01-08-2003 18:34
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It makes a welcome change for the 'board strokes' of a new theory in physics to be understandable by the layman.

Eli is offline Eli
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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 01-08-2003 18:43
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quote:
and an argument against the theory of Imaginary time by British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking.


Good.
This "imaginary time" thingie never made any sense.

Saras is offline Saras
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 01-08-2003 19:11
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Okay, where are resident professional physicists?

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
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  Old Post 01-08-2003 19:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Saras
Okay, where are resident professional physicists?


Ripping up their text books?

Stefu is offline Stefu
Emperor
CLOWNS WIT DA DOWNS 4 LIFE YO!
Jan 1970
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The answer is... sheep!

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 01-08-2003 19:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Saras
Okay, where are resident professional physicists?


Lynds' work is exciting and groundbreaking. It is very good stuff. It is a reasonable outcome of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 01-08-2003 19:34
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How so?

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
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Terre Haute, IN USA
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
How so?


"the absence of an instant in time and determined relative position, necessarily means the absence of all other precisely determined physical magnitudes and values at a time, including space and time itself."

In other words, the absence of precisely determined physical magnitudes is the result of both the uncertainty principle and the absence of an instant in time. It makes sense that if you have one, you would have the other, since if there were an instant in time, then you could measure precise physical magnitudes, and you would lose the indeterminacy.

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 01-08-2003 20:29
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sounds fun. probably means we'll get even bigger bombs within the next 50 years

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
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Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecthelion
sounds fun. probably means we'll get even bigger bombs within the next 50 years


Yeah, every citizen should have a right to their own quantum destabilizer bomb!

st_swithin is offline st_swithin
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OH GOD NO!!! EVERYTHING I KNEW ABOUT QUANTUM MECHANICS AND GENERAL RELATIVITY IS A LIE!! NOOOOOO!!!

And I even got an 'A' in calculus! NOW I'M DUM!

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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Police Officer, you are accusing me, that precisely at this cross-road, at 10h31 to-day I have exceeded the speed limit by 10 MpH. Do you realize, Police Officer, that you are contradicting Lynds law which stipulates that there is no such thing as an instant in time named 10h31, neither than a determined relative position designated by *at this cross-road*. Worse, you mention a speed limit exceeded although you know perfectly well that speed is a function of time and time does not exist. Ok, ok, I appreciate that yesterday you came home late and your wife asked a few questions that lasted more that you think the subject deserved; next time tell her that time does not exist … But don’t try again that trick of speed limit on me !

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by Eli
quote:
and an argument against the theory of Imaginary time by British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking.


Good.
This "imaginary time" thingie never made any sense.


Sure it does. The label is hyped by people (popular media) who don't have a clue about compound and imaginary numbers. The "imaginary" component results from the reduction of a negative square to it's square root (i.e. -b2 to ib)

Eli is offline Eli
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quote:
Sure it does. The label is hyped by people (popular media) who don't have a clue about compound and imaginary numbers. The "imaginary" component results from the reduction of a negative square to it's square root (i.e. -b2 to ib)



Well, duh.

The whole application of weird mathematical stuff to real world stuff on the basis of errmm... uhhh... I have no idea on what basis, makes no sense.

st_swithin is offline st_swithin
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Show me an 'imaginary number' to the same precision as pi and I'll show you how OJ was innocent.

Rhetoric is like the Hamptons - it's for LOSERS.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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90% of all scientists who ever lived are still active. Something new must sooner or later come out from our work...

St Leo is offline St Leo
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Uh, what's so hard about the Turtle paradox?

1/2 m + 1/4 m + 1/8 m + 1/16 m + 1/32 m + ... = 1 m
1/2 s + 1/4 s + 1/8 s + 1/16 s + 1/32 s + ... = 1 s

In other words, the problem is stated in such a way that a finite distance and a finite timeframe are used despite the fact that the series itself is infinite.

Achilles will never pass the Turtle within the range of the infinite series of smaller distances and times, but once Achilles runs past the sum of the infinite series of smaller distances in the sum of the infinite series of times, he will be ahead of the turtle.

The paradox is caused by the use of an inappropriate model for the problem.

Σari = a/(1-r) for 0 < r < 1

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Oct 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by st_swithin
Show me an 'imaginary number' to the same precision as pi and I'll show you how OJ was innocent.

Rhetoric is like the Hamptons - it's for LOSERS.


i * pi

Now 'splain that part about flying DNA to me again, Counselor?

Odin is offline Odin
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Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
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I suck at algebra. I am a visual thinker.

Which is why I like Biology.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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The only part of Biology that I care much for are evolutionary laws.

Proteus_MST is offline Proteus_MST
Prince

Dec 2001
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Just fascinating

*Raising an Eyebrow*

yavoon is offline yavoon
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Oct 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by Eli
quote:
Sure it does. The label is hyped by people (popular media) who don't have a clue about compound and imaginary numbers. The "imaginary" component results from the reduction of a negative square to it's square root (i.e. -b2 to ib)



Well, duh.

The whole application of weird mathematical stuff to real world stuff on the basis of errmm... uhhh... I have no idea on what basis, makes no sense.


u should read the elegant universe then.

st_swithin is offline st_swithin
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I am Jack's ejaculating bodily waste.

SUM(1/n) = 1
SUM(1/s) = 1

n = 1 - s

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
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Jul 2002
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Wait, let me see if I understand this: people are going ga-ga over this 27 yr old's paper stating that there is no finite instant of time and there is no finite location in space?

Hell, I already knew that. And I suck at all math higher than "+" "-" "*" and "/."

quote:
On the paradoxes Lynds said, "I guess one might infer that we've been a bit slow on the uptake, considering it's taken us so long to reach these conclusions.


Ya' think?

quote:
I don't think that's the case though. Rather that, in respect to an instant in time, I don't think it's surprising considering the obvious difficulty of seeing through something that you actually see and think with. Moreover, that with his deceivingly profound paradoxes, I think Zeno of Elea was a true visionary, and in a sense, 2500 years ahead of his time."


Eastern philosophies were coming up with this stuff too at the same time, you eurocentric twit.



I'm gonna have to dig out S.Hawkin's BHoT and reread imaginary time; don't really remember what he was getting at and nothing posted here is clicking with me.

yavoon is offline yavoon
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Oct 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Wait, let me see if I understand this: people are going ga-ga over this 27 yr old's paper stating that there is no finite instant of time and there is no finite location in space?

Hell, I already knew that. And I suck at all math higher than "+" "-" "*" and "/."



Ya' think?



Eastern philosophies were coming up with this stuff too at the same time, you eurocentric twit.



I'm gonna have to dig out S.Hawkin's BHoT and reread imaginary time; don't really remember what he was getting at and nothing posted here is clicking with me.


believing it is true and rigorously proving it are so far apart that they don't warrant comparison

Odin is offline Odin
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Sep 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
The only part of Biology that I care much for are evolutionary laws.


Nothing in Biology makes sense unless in the light of evolution. I am sickened that Biology has always lagged behind the other sciences. I won't be satisfied until people stop calling algae and fungi plants and protozoans animals!

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
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Jul 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by yavoon


believing it is true and rigorously proving it are so far apart that they don't warrant comparison


So you dismiss Eastern philosophies' ability to ponder the inponderable?

Gee, seemed to work for ancient Mediterreanian thinkers and seems to be accepted by modern Western Science as "a good start." Double standard, methinks...

 
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