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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
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Well, actually I thought a bowman would reflect the manding (sp?) military tradition more accurately. The height of the Mali empire lasted only 2 centuries, and the time where they could use Arab-imported cavalries was even less.
However, the Kingdom of Mali (and its base ethnical group the Manding) was much older, and continued to exist until today, ever after it stopped being a great empire. During this whole period, the Manding people became military elites in the lands populated by other ethnies, and their favored weapon was the bow.
According to Valentin Fernandes, the bow was the symbol of the Manding military spirit. Moreover, the bow was magically charged, as it takes a great place in the epics of Sundjata, and was used in initiation rites such as hunting.
(you may be interested by http://www.mande.net , where I found most of my info about the Mali and the Manding. However, it is only in French)
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:29
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Although I don’t disagree with you about the role of the bowman (and his semi-sacred aspect), if you look at Mali in the longer West African historical perspective you’ll note that its most prestigious predecessor (Ghana), its immediate successor (Songhai) and other powerful states to the south (Oyo), based their expansion and might on armed cavalry.
It’s interesting that Mali was able to beat the Tuaregs to the formation of skilled large cavalry formations, due mainly to the profits from salt and gold trading, and also the slave and kola nut trade. I also find it interesting that the successor state to Mali, Songhai, could be beaten by a relatively small force of Moroccan army and Tuareg mercenaries- armed with a few light artillery pieces and flintlock muskets, at a time when Songhai had used its cavalry to enforce its rule over a diverse ethnic patchwork quilt of peoples.
As Roland Oliver puts it in ‘The African Experience’ publ. Pimlico edn., 1993:
‘...the pastoralists had horses, and even though they had to be ridden bareback and with bitless bridles, the small horses long indigenous in the Sahara and the Sahel were an effective aid in slave-catching.
When supplemented by the big Barbary horses of North Africa, complete with saddles and stirrups, with proper harness and padded horse-armour, and with suits of chain-mail for the riders, cavalry became the decisive, unstoppable weapon against all who were not similarly armed.’
Chapter 8, p.98.
See also R.C.C. Law, ‘The Horse in West African History’, and H.J. Fisher in ‘The Journal of African History’, vol.13, publ. 1972
Leo Africanus:
THE KINGDOM OF MALI
In this kingdom there is a large and ample village containing more than six thousand families, and named Mali, which is also the name of the whole kingdom. Here the king has his residence.
THE CITY OF TIMBUKTU
All its houses are ... cottages, built of mud and covered with thatch. However, there is a most stately mosque to be seen, whose walls are made of stone and lime, and a princely palace also constructed by the highly skilled craftsmen of Granada. This region yields great quantities of grain, cattle, milk, and butter, but salt is very scarce here, for it is brought here by land from Tegaza, which is five hundred miles away. When I was there, I saw one camel-load of salt sold for eighty ducats.
The rich king of Timbuktu has many plates and scepters of gold, some of which weigh 1,300 pounds, and he keeps a magnificent and well-furnished court. When he travels anywhere, he rides upon a camel, which is led by some of his noblemen. He does so likewise when going to war, and all his soldiers ride upon horses. Whoever wishes to speak to this king must first of all fall down before his feet and then taking up earth must sprinkle it on his own head and shoulders. ... [The king] always has under arms 3,000 horsemen and a great number of foot soldiers who shoot poisoned arrows. They often skirmish with those who refuse to pay tribute and whomever they capture they sell to the merchants of Timbuktu. Here very few horses are bred. ... Their best horses are brought out of North Africa. As soon as the king learns that any merchants have come to the town with horses, he commands that a certain number be brought before him. Choosing the best horse for himself, he pays a most liberal price for it....
THE TOWN AND KINGDOM OF GA0
The king of this region has a certain private palace in which he keeps a large number of concubines and slaves, who are watched by eunuchs. To guard his person he maintains a sufficient troop of horsemen and foot soldiers. Between the first gate of the palace and the inner part, there is a walled enclosure wherein the king personally decides all of his subjects controversies. Although the king is most diligent in this regard and conducts all business in these matters, he has in his company counsellors and such other officers as his secretaries, treasurers, stewards and auditors.
It is a wonder to see the quality of merchandise that is daily brought here and how costly and sumptuous everything is. Horses purchased in Europe for ten ducats are sold here for forty and sometimes fifty ducats apiece.
THE KINGDOM OF BORNO
They have a most powerful prince. ... He has in readiness as many as three thousand horsemen and a huge number of foot soldiers; for all his subjects are so serviceable and obedient to him, that whenever he commands them, they will arm themselves and will follow him wherever he leads them. They pay him no tribute except tithes on their grain; neither does the king have any revenues to support his state except the spoils he gets from his enemies by frequent invasions and assaults. He is in a state of perpetual hostility with a certain people who live beyond the desert of Seu, who in times past marching with a huge army of footsoldiers over the said desert, devastated a great part of the Kingdom of Borno. Whereupon the king sent for the merchants of Barbary and ordered them to bring him a great store of horses: for in this country they exchange horses for slaves, and sometimes give fifteen or twenty slaves for a horse. And by this means there were a great many horses bought although the merchants were forced to stay for their slaves until the king returned home as a conqueror with a great number of captives, and satisfied his creditors for his horses. Frequently it happens that the merchants must stay three months before the king returned from the wars. ... Sometimes he does not bring home enough slaves to satisfy the merchants and sometimes they are forced to wait a whole year. ... And yet the king seems marvelously rich, because his spurs, bridles, platters, dishes, pots and other vessels are made of gold. The king is extremely covetous and would rather pay his debts in slaves rather than gold.
Source: Leo Africanus, "History and Description of Africa," in Alfred Andrea and James Overfield, eds. The Human Record: Sources in Global History, Volume II, 3rd Edition (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Co., 1998): 46-49.
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
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Molly Bloom:
Thanks for the descriptions by Leo Africanus, I haden't read those before (I guess mande.net has its shortcomings too  )
Actually, I've looked at pictures of current Timbuktu, Jenne and Gao, and there seem to be pretty solid elements of the traditional "Sudanese" architectural style. If anybody is interested in making an African cultural group, those are buildings to consider (theMosque of Jenne is an absolute must) 
BTW, while we're at it, I suggest you to read the Epics of Sundjata. It is worth a read, and I hope I'll see some kind of African peplum movie about this legend one day .
Now, more to the point. I now think you are right ert knights as Malian UU. Indeed, the UU is to represent the height of a country's military power, rather than its military tradition. As such, cavalries deserve to be Malian UU (besides, it'll help dispel the conception that African empires were always primitive). However, I wonder what would such a knight do. Ignore jungle and forests move costs ? Might be convenient, but not really great.
BTW, could you please help me with my English ? I have no idea if the correct adjective would be "Mali" or "Malian", and I don't know if the correct noun would be "Mali" or "Malians". Thanks.
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