02-08-2003 04:38									#1
	Intercepting Bomber Missions Remove this text

Hi, i was wondering:

how exactly is the chance of intercepting a bombing mission work when you have both a SAM missile site and a fighter in the area on "air superiority"? also, if there is more than one fighter? also, do fighters and jet fighters have the same chance as intercepting? finally, i'll use an example for this question. if i'm germany, and i bomb a city and have a fighter on air superiority nearby, can my german fighter intercept, say, a french fighter going to intercept my bomber?

thank you

	02-08-2003 05:29									#2
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To avoid having my bombers getting intercept, I often send my fighters first on reconnaissance mission over the target. IIRC, the enemy planes try to intercept my fighter, and an even battle ensues.

	02-08-2003 11:02									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor To avoid having my bombers getting intercept, I often send my fighters first on reconnaissance mission over the target. IIRC, the enemy planes try to intercept my fighter, and an even battle ensues.

if u get that far in the game i would recommened stealth planes....i have yet to get intercepted with stealth

	02-08-2003 12:45									#4
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Spiffor, Reconnaissance missions are not subject to interception. Use your fighters on bombing missions instead to provoke it (50% default chance*).

The intercept battles are not even. The interceptor is the attacker (jet fighter attack at 8), the intercepted is the defender (jet fighter defense at 4 (stock value*)).

* I prefer 67% chance to intercept; I have increased Fighter Defense to 3, Jet Fighter to 7, F-15 to 8.

	02-08-2003 13:00									#5
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bobbo008, each bombing mission has a 50% chance of being intercepted if there are 1 or more potential interceptors (or SAM site) in range of your target square. The intercept chance does not increase with more interceptors available, except that interceptors can only intercept once per turn.

Air superiority missions apply ONLY against the bombing aircraft! You CANNOT counter air superiority missions with your own air superiority missions! See my previous post regarding workarounds.

I have had limited experience with the function of SAM sites (just today, in fact). They cover only the city, not even the adjacent tiles. It is my supposition that if you are fated to be intercepted and a SAM site is available, it will be used. A SAM site cannot lose (until it is destroyed by bombardment), a fighter that intercepts CAN unless it is intercepting a stealth craft.

	03-08-2003 21:52									#6
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Civ3 has such bad air combat. Fighters should be able to escort bombers. And it doesn't make any sense if you have 10 fighter units based in a city on air superiority and the bomber gets through unscathed. Also, when a bomber is intercepted it should be able to fight back, not just crash. Another thing that needs to be done is air units shouldn't always fight to the death. It is not the way it really happened. The problem with this is the wounded bomber units would just go back to the city and get healed. So, the solution for that is air units can't heal when they go back to the city. They have to go to the city and the city has to spend shields rebuilding the unit. This should only apply to air units though.

	03-08-2003 22:47									#7
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Fighters CAN escort bombers - send them on bombing runs to clear out enemy fighters.

If you don't like how often the bombers get through, edit the value (I have it at 80%).

A bomber CAN fight back. It has a defense of 2. Stealth Fighters and Bombers can't fight back because they carry no antifighter weapons. A Stealth plane's sole line of defense is the Stealth, which is pretty darned good.

Units in Civ3 ofthen DO fight to the death. It would just be a huge impossible mess if they almost never did. The game is on a strategic level, and it actually simulates air combat extremely well. Or would you rather it work like in Civ2?

	03-08-2003 23:38									#8
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Yes I have had many bombers shoot down a fighter that attacked them. I have no idea what the odds are, but it happens at least once in most of my games.
Usually I stop sending bombers if they have fighters in that city.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 04-08-2003 at 03:34

	04-08-2003 02:39									#9
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Yes, bombers can destroy intercepting fighters and even be promoted to elite as a result. They tend to not fare so well against jet fighters which have a higher attack value.

SAM sites are a real pain. In one game I hit a major city with 16 stealth bombers in a single turn. The SAM site shot down 3 of them (the chance is only supposed to be 5%), damn the RNG! Even more irritating, I went in again on the next 2 turns using smart bombing to try and take out the SAM site. I got it eventually after losing 2 more stealth bombers but only after taking out every other improvement in the target city first. That's not very "smart". I hope that one of the changes in conquests is to allow smart bombing to choose which city improvement you go for - anyone with any sense is going to go for the SAM site first given a choice.

	04-08-2003 04:56									#10
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hi ,

the only thing thats regretable is the fact that fighter bombers are not well portrayed in the game , ......

like for example a phantom or skyhawk , ......

as for the rest , the bombers like even updated B-52's and b-17's and all the other rim ram , the numbers are good , most fighters shoot them indeed down , ......

have a nice day

	04-08-2003 08:51									#11
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yes I have had many bombers shoot down a fighter that attacked them. I have no idea what the odds are, but it happens at least once in most of my games. Usually I stop sending bombers if they have fighters in that city.

The odds are 2/3 chance of the fighter shooting down the bomber (assuming equal hp).

	04-08-2003 15:43									#12
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quote: Originally posted by ruthless planes....i have yet to get intercepted with stealth

Playing with around 40 Stealth-Bombers, I lost 4 of them in one turn.

	04-08-2003 15:46									#13
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod Civ3 has such bad air combat.

The same thing can be said about artillery and sea bombardement.

But if you have huge numbers of any them, they are pretty useful.

And they are even more useful in defense.

	04-08-2003 17:09									#14
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quote: Originally posted by georges bonbon Playing with around 40 Stealth-Bombers, I lost 4 of them in one turn.

hi ,

bad luck , happens in the real world also , .....

have a nice day

	04-08-2003 23:40									#15
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ok, i appears as if some posts contradict or i'm just slow. anyone care to help me out again and say how exactly i can get fighters to fight each other. do they both have to be on air superiority, can one be on recon, or does one have to be on a bombing mission? thanks

and i've had many stealth bombers get shot down, and once to a plain ol' fighter...

	05-08-2003 00:45									#16
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 ok, i appears as if some posts contradict or i'm just slow. anyone care to help me out again and say how exactly i can get fighters to fight each other. do they both have to be on air superiority, can one be on recon, or does one have to be on a bombing mission? thanks and i've had many stealth bombers get shot down, and once to a plain ol' fighter...

hi ,

just place one figher on air sup , then do your bomb run or just to be on the save side , send a fighter first for a recon , then bomb , .....

but be carefull , in the enemy has many cities that overlay one and an other it shall not work ( if there are fighters in them on air sup )

the stealth that you lost , dont worry , imagine the pilot made an error while moving away from the old fighter , .....

have a nice day

	05-08-2003 01:12									#17
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bobbo,
I am just repeating what I said before, but:
For a fighter on Air Superiority to intercept, there must be an opposing BOMBING (or Precision Bombing) mission within half the fighter's operational range of the fighter's base. ALSO, it must be determined that the mission will be intercepted (50%, 5% for stealth).

Recon missions will never be intercepted. For crying out softly, the AI doesn't even have any USE for recon (they already know where everything is).

	05-08-2003 16:28									#18
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once again, contradiction. one says i can two fighters on air supremacy can fight, the other only when there is a bombing mission...

i've never even seen an air fight, are they any good?

	05-08-2003 17:05									#19
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 once again, contradiction. one says i can two fighters on air supremacy can fight, the other only when there is a bombing mission... i've never even seen an air fight, are they any good?

hi ,

they are over fast but its worth it

months ago someone posted some pics of it , ....... ( but where , search aint given thread )

have a nice day

	05-08-2003 20:19									#20
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Bobo:

Jaybe is correct. Interception occurs only with bombing missions. Air superiority will NOT interfere in another interception mission.

Panag:

If you want to represent fighter- bombers then just up the bombardment stats of the fighter, Jet fighter, and F-15.

	05-08-2003 20:32									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber Bobo: Jaybe is correct. Interception occurs only with bombing missions. Air superiority will NOT interfere in another interception mission. Panag: If you want to represent fighter- bombers then just up the bombardment stats of the fighter, Jet fighter, and F-15.

hi ,

nah there should be a new unit to close the gap , maybe one like a phantom or so , with two options , ' push button for fighter mission ' & ' push button for bomb run ' , .....

have a nice day

	05-08-2003 23:57									#22
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"' push button for fighter mission ' & ' push button for bomb run ' "

air superiority and bombing?

ok, the only way to get rid of enemy fighters is to have one of my fighters bomb near them and hope to get in a fight and win?

	06-08-2003 02:36									#23
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 ok, the only way to get rid of enemy fighters is to have one of my fighters bomb near them and hope to get in a fight and win?

YES, that's the only way to DESTROY enemy fighters in air-to-air combat (unless your bomber WINS while being intercepted)!!

However, since a fighter on Air Superiority can intercept only once per turn, you can clear the interceptor so that your bomber can get in even if your fighter loses.

	06-08-2003 02:40									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe YES, that's the only way to DESTROY enemy fighters in air-to-air combat (unless your bomber WINS while being intercepted)!! However, since a fighter on Air Superiority can intercept only once per turn, you can clear the interceptor so that your bomber can get in even if your fighter loses.

hi ,

yes thats true , but if there us an other city in the radius , .... with a fighter , ..... that leads to a costly loss

have a nice day

	07-08-2003 00:06									#25
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quote: quote: However, since a fighter on Air Superiority can intercept only once per turn, you can clear the interceptor so that your bomber can get in even if your fighter loses. yes thats true , but if there us an other city in the radius , .... with a fighter , ..... that leads to a costly loss

Duh, good point. So, IF an interceptor intercepts, and IF there are no other interceptors within radius (1/2 of op. range), then you're safe to bring in the bombers. Or you can just decide to be lucky with the RNG so the bombing mission just doesn't get intercepted.

What I try to do is do fighter bombing missions in the bomb target area (accounting for intercept range) until I have 2 consecutive missions not intercepted (remember, I use 67% chance to intercept). Then I assume there aren't any more interceptors, bring in the bombers, and hope for the best. Of course, having a spy in place so you know when they run out of fighters is nice.

Where it gets really fun is when they have bombers too, so you also want some of your fighters on intercept, not just offensive missions.

	07-08-2003 00:56									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe quote: quote: However, since a fighter on Air Superiority can intercept only once per turn, you can clear the interceptor so that your bomber can get in even if your fighter loses. yes thats true , but if there us an other city in the radius , .... with a fighter , ..... that leads to a costly loss Duh, good point. So, IF an interceptor intercepts, and IF there are no other interceptors within radius (1/2 of op. range), then you're safe to bring in the bombers. Or you can just decide to be lucky with the RNG so the bombing mission just doesn't get intercepted. What I try to do is do fighter bombing missions in the bomb target area (accounting for intercept range) until I have 2 consecutive missions not intercepted (remember, I use 67% chance to intercept). Then I assume there aren't any more interceptors, bring in the bombers, and hope for the best. Of course, having a spy in place so you know when they run out of fighters is nice. Where it gets really fun is when they have bombers too, so you also want some of your fighters on intercept, not just offensive missions.

hi ,

actually you are never save , ......

sometimes bomber 2 and three go true , no 4 gets it , 5 and 6 go true , yet they where all in range of 5 AI cities with at least one fighter on watch , .......

the AI shall most of the times not put two fighters in one city , an other intresting is that the AI tends to fall for a set up , bomb a couple times one side of his land and you shall see that on the other side there are no fighters left , ......


have a nice day

	07-08-2003 17:07									#27
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"the AI shall most of the times not put two fighters in one city "

in my current game, the AI has grouped its 10 or so fighters into about 3 cities, usually in the area of whre i'm bombing at that time.

	07-08-2003 19:48									#28
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 "the AI shall most of the times not put two fighters in one city " in my current game, the AI has grouped its 10 or so fighters into about 3 cities, usually in the area of whre i'm bombing at that time.

Yes, this is extremely common. A couple nights ago I encountered the craziest thing I had ever seen. I've been playing the same game for ages now, and it's currently like 2334AD or so. Well needless to say, the Babs have gotten rowdy and had a ton of Stealth Bombers, and they went nuts on the Egyptians. Due to my indirect protection of the Egyptians (via dumping tons of money their way), they had 60-70 Jet Fighters. I watched them shoot down approximately 11-12 Stealth Bombers in one turn. The crazy part was that they shot down 6 in a row. I've personally never shot down more than 3 in a row, so I was impressed.

BTW, what's the deal with the max number of troops in the game? It seems to be an AWFULLY low number IMO for a Huge map. Granted, I had 594 MA and 585 MI, and the Babs were big, too. But given the amount of land I had, it was ridiculously difficult for me to defend anything other than my bases of operation. Is there any chance we'll see a bump-up in the number of allowable units in Conquests?

	07-08-2003 20:12									#29
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Traelin,

nukes would help a lot

	07-08-2003 22:49									#30
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 "the AI shall most of the times not put two fighters in one city " in my current game, the AI has grouped its 10 or so fighters into about 3 cities, usually in the area of whre i'm bombing at that time.

hi ,

not at first ( right after he can build them ) or towards a longer campaign , and then there is the trick to lure them away to the other side of his nation , ......


what would really helpfull and intresting is to see the AEGIS cruiser to launch rockets like the SAM site in the cities when enemy planes are in the area ( 3 X 3 ) , .....


have a nice day