02-08-2003 13:00									#1
	Cannons...BOOM Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was reading a bit in the Civlopedia and noticed that cannons have a bombard value of 8 - that's the same as bombers and battleships (!)
The cannos cost 40 shields (I think), just like a musketman - not too much in mid-late age 2.

However, I use them in my games only when I capture them in a city, because the 1 movement and only 1 range is annoying in the cavalary era.

I wnat to know how YOU use the cannon, and is it an effective unit or not?

	02-08-2003 14:10									#2
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It can be an effective unit...sometimes. I usually use cannons to bust a tough-nut city down to size 6 for minimal loss of my cavalry. Other than that though the one movement rate means they can't keep up with my fast attackers very easily and I attack some cities without busting them down first.

	02-08-2003 16:04									#3
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They're generally used for defence or 'nutcracking' tough cities. I haven't built one for a long time as my games are usually over by then, but I don't think anyone brings them on long-range cav expeditions. Post Railroad, they can more easily be brought to an advancing front line for pounding enemy cities, but prior to that they can be used offensively against cities near your border.

	02-08-2003 16:45									#4
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good for defense, move them next to opposition troops and bombard them to yellow or red, much easier to kill cavalry on mountains etc then

	02-08-2003 20:08									#5
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Yeah, other than defense, I don't find the early bombards to be that useful.
However, that's probably due to my choice of civ-egypt or the Iroquois-I hate to drag those things behind my fastmovers.

If I were, say, the persians or the romans, cats would be great as the army would move at the same speed. And cats early = cannons a bit later. If I have them, I'll upgrade. If not, I wait till artillery, which is a great little unit.

	03-08-2003 00:55									#6
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Yeah, one day I'll get round to playing Rome/Persia again so I can try bringing cats to the party.

	03-08-2003 03:57									#7
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Yes, bombard-units are awesome for defence but I rarely use them for offense, for I like to fight blitzkrieg-like wars (probably because I am German ) and go for a fast kill.
I also don't like the fact that bombard units destroy the city's improvements.

	03-08-2003 04:36									#8
	Re: Cannons...BOOM Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by SIV I was reading a bit in the Civlopedia and noticed that cannons have a bombard value of 8 - that's the same as bombers and battleships (!) The cannos cost 40 shields (I think), just like a musketman - not too much in mid-late age 2.

The difference here is that Cannons have a ROF of just 1, but Bombers have a ROF of 3. That means that the expected damage from a Bomber is three times more than that from a Cannon. Similarly, Battleships have a ROF of 2.

I'm not a big fan of Cannons. For the price of one Cannon you can build two Catapults. Two Catapults are actually better than one Cannon in expected damage!

There seems to have been a design decision by Firaxis to make gunpowder units (until Cavalry) very expensive for their strength. (Musketmen, for just +1 defense, cost as much as two pikemen).

	04-08-2003 16:50									#9
	Re: Re: Cannons...BOOM Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by alexman I'm not a big fan of Cannons. For the price of one Cannon you can build two Catapults. Two Catapults are actually better than one Cannon in expected damage!

.. but they cost twice as much to maintain, and without extreme micro-management you lose a few shields at the end of each build.

Also, and I know Alexman is a game-mechanics guru, I'd rate my chances of hitting anything in a late middle-ages city with a catapult as zero, however many I had - on the basis of experience. This is only perception of course, not mathematics . For defending against attackers though, I can see the value of 2 cats v 1 cannon.

I agree about the muskets. Unless I've got too much cash, or I've built everything, or my tech rate has collapsed, I'd rather hang on till Rifles - or even Infantry.

	05-08-2003 04:37									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm having mucho fun with Cannons in my re-play of AU 208. Offshore deterrents if you have enough of them, and cheap as heck for the more corrupt / less shields cities to build.

	05-08-2003 16:18									#11
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..and even cheaper if the little cities are unconnected. Build cats and upgrade them.

	05-08-2003 20:59									#12
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Has anyone noticed if Korea's UU cannon makes a significant difference in warfare? I am playing Korea for first time, but its still early and I dont have cannons yet.

	06-08-2003 10:40									#13
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you wouldn't think cannons would be as strong as battleships...

	06-08-2003 20:04									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Feephi Has anyone noticed if Korea's UU cannon makes a significant difference in warfare? I am playing Korea for first time, but its still early and I dont have cannons yet.

I'm also playing Korea for the first time, and I can't wait to use this unit... a bombard value of 12?!? That's "off the hook" to use a lousy pop term!

The problem with Korea is getting to the point in the game where you can build H'wachas en masse...

	06-08-2003 23:38									#15
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I dunno. For every slow H'wacha you build you need to send along an infantry unit to guard it. Available infantry of the time (Muskets?/Rifles?) are not so powerful that contemporary attack units can't overwhelm it, costing you two units for one defeat.

I'm not a fan of bombard units until Artillery and Infantry. Cavalry die against Infantry, especially on hills/mountains. Range of 2 ensures that you'll find that hill or mountain within range of an AI city.