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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
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Somewhat recently, I have gotten into a few debates about astrology and such stuff with a person whom I regard as a highly intelligent one. Please note that he's a very rational, logically thinking man with excellent skills at chess, mathematics and logics... at any rate, not something you could call a weirdo that believes in all kinds of stupid stuff.
There is, though, that one thing that he believes in, and that's astrology. NOT the kind of newspaper horoscopes - I've been able to prove to everyone that they're complete b/s. Compare stuff from different papers and you'll see... but I'm not getting into it now.
The kind of astrology I'm speaking of is a birth horoscope. It's created by knowing the exact date and time of a person's birth, and I just happen to know my birth time precisely to the minute. Then, some 12 houses are drawn, planets arranged according to some tables and whatnot, it's pretty complex stuff, and not something I've examined, either.
He says that this kind of horoscope is the only one that can be true, gave me a few examples of matching stuff. I was saying that it's complete crap, all the way till I got mine.
First thing it said was about a certain unlucky period for me. Hmm, I thought, there was an event in that timeframe that certainly ruined much of my life for the next time. I did, though, ask for an exact date of when was my bad period supposed to happen - and got a very exact answer. It was, though, 4 months before the event actually happened. I cheered that it just proves the horoscope is b/s...
But then, I was very disappointed. Every other thing matched. It was basically a perfect match, which got me annoyed to no end. I have never believed in any sort of astrology and here it is, now...
Therefore, I ask, is there any possibility how the placement of planets at time of birth can affect people? I realise that it's pretty stupid sounding, and don't believe that myself, but who knows... planets have gravitation, humans have metals in them... much possible interaction. I would please like tips to some literature or websites on the subject...
Accepting the possibility of it would go against many of my beliefs, but I confess it has gotten me pretty interested.
Maybe anyone knows what the horoscope method I tried to describe is called, or how it's done?
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:30
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quote:
planets have gravitation |
Your mouse exerts more gravitational force on you than Jupiter does.
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Sheik
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Astrology is good for entertainment and that's it.
Just run a google search for Skeptic and Astrology in the same search and you will have everything you need.
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Evil Knevil
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St Andrews, Scotland.
Dec 1999
time: 05:30
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I really should have this on file.............
Bertram Forer did and early study(1949)
He asked his students to fill out a test listing their hobbies, ambitions, secret hopes and personal characteristics.
He returned personal interpretations to each of them. They were then asked wether the interpretations were accurate, on a scale of 0-5. The median was 4.3.
It turns out that Forer gave the exact same 'interpretation' to all of his students, without looking at any of their profiles:
1/ You have a great need for other people to like and admire you.
2/ You have a tendancy to be critical of yourself.
3/ You have a great deal of unused capacity, which you have not turned to your advantage.
4/ While you have some personality weaknesses, you a generally able to compensate for them.
5/ Your sexual adjustment has presented problems for you.
6/ Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worried and insecure inside.
7/ You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others.
8/ At times you are extroverted affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary and reserved.
Hmmm...
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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Solver,
What your friend did is called "casting a horoscope," and that's what professional astrologers do for a living. Here are some counterpoints I can think of off-hand:
1. The constellations do not move very fast. More precisely, the earth doesn't rotate around the sun that fast.
2. Precession. The 12 houses astrologers use are based on Babylonian stuff, yet in the intervening thousands of years the constellations had shifted around, so the correspondence to seasons etc. is now all out of whack.
3. Some famous tests:
quote:
In 1979 Michel Gauquelin put an advertisement in Ici-Paris offering a free horoscope. Recipients were asked to reply saying how accurate they and their friends found the horoscope. Of the first 150 replies, 94% percent said it was accurate as did 90% of their friends and family. Unfortunately, they all got the same horoscope, that of Dr. Petiot, a notorious mass murderer.
In 1982 Australian Skeptics collected thirteen newspaper horoscope columns for the last week of August, rated them for good, bad and vague predictions about News, Health and Luck; Relationships; Finance and Travel. They found very little consistency, in fact most signs had a fairly even spread so, for instance, you could find one paper telling you it would be a lucky week and another saying the opposite. This shows that newspaper horoscopes are essentially random.
In 1985, Harry Edwards checked all the predictions from Old Moore's Almanack for 1984. These were written by a couple of top astrologers. Of the 200 predictions it was possible to check, less than 5% materialised and practically all of those could have been based solely on probability, prior knowledge or astute speculation. Astrologers are no better than pastry cooks, taxi drivers or any of us at predicting.
In 1985, at the University of California, Berkeley, Shawn Carlson designed a test in conjunction with a number of America's top Astrologers to test the fundamental thesis of natal astrology. Considerable effort was spent ensuring that all parties were happy with the experiments beforehand. In the first experiment, people in a test group were given three horoscopes, one of which was theirs, and asked to rate them for fit. A control group, matched for sun-sign, was given the same horoscopes. The astrologers said the test group should pick their own horoscope at least 50% of the time but both groups did no better than chance. This showed that people can't identify their own horoscope and find any horosope satisfactory. In a second experiment participating astrologers were asked to match horoscopes with corresponding personality inventory tests. Again the astrologers did no better than chance. This shows that horoscopes do not predict personality.
On June 7, 1989, on American television, James Randi offered $100,000 to any psychic or Astrologer who could prove the truth of their claims. An astrologer who took up the challenge was given the birth information of twelve people and had cast their charts. He interviewed the twelve without knowing who was whom and was to identify them by matching them with horoscopes. He got none right. |
4. The ever so vague predictions.
5. Cold and warm readings. Also, you said this guy who casted your horosope is a friend of yours? There you go.
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
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Just my opinion, but astrology derives from an ancient belief that the celestial bodies, primarily planets, were gods or represented gods. Their position in the heavens could then be viewed as "favorable" or "unfavorable" wrt events here on Earth. Just how is a matter of speculation, but I suspect a complex framework of "myths" about the constellations (even Christianity and the Bible contain some of these myths) and the stories told to account for them and their arrangement in the sky, e.g., Orion the Hunter, Hamlet's Mill and the great mill in the sky (the North Pole), the Milky Way, etc., were the background for the movement of the planets. Regarding the Bible, Genesis tells us a punishment for the Serpent was to be trod upon by Eve and her descendents - a reference to the positioning of Virgo the Virgin's heel and Draconus the Snake. What's interesting is not all this horoscope stuff, but the mythology and how some of these myths appear on opposite sides of the world.
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CerberusIV
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I am currently reading a book about early astronomy. For most of history astronomy and astrology go hand in hand. The big difference has been that, until very recently, astrology pays and astronomy doesn't. Most ancient and medieval astronomers did astrology to pay the bills whilst pursuing astronomy as their interest.
OK, that doesn't invalidate astrology but some people making money out of other peoples desire to know what is in store for them is enough to explain why it exists, regardless of whether it works or not.
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03-08-2003 02:36
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It has a grav field 
. At different times of the year, Earth will be exposed to different amounts of this radiation, depending on where Earth is in relation to the sun and galactic centre. This could have an effect on us during jestation and early days. It doesn't take a genius to notice that we Aquarians are "different" to you [S]inferiors[/S] others.We don't need to consider other sources because they occur on such grand timescales that even dozens of of human generations would be irrelevant.
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