04-08-2003 03:21									#31
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It would be good to see what% of US voters place economic issues first and what % social issues.

	04-08-2003 03:32									#32
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quote: I still cannot understand how the US, a presumably modern country, can still be that backwards about issues like creationism and abortion. In Europe, anti-abortionists and creationists are extremely marginal and considered as loonies or monsters by the general public. And rightly so

It's interesting though, considering that (AFAIK) most European countries have stricter laws considering abortion than the States.

	04-08-2003 03:48									#33
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quote: It would be good to see what% of US voters place economic issues first and what % social issues.

I think it changes quite a bit, depending on the mood in the country at the moment people are voting or answering the poll.

	04-08-2003 03:50									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu It's interesting though, considering that (AFAIK) most European countries have stricter laws considering abortion than the States.

This is very possible, and we have our own haven of backwardness (Ireland) in the EU. However, in my experience, the European people are not hostile to abortion except in a tiny minority. I cannot imagine an abortion debate in Europe similar as to what I see on 'Poly.

	04-08-2003 03:51									#35
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Abortion and other social, ethical, and personal rights issues are worth fighting about and therefore we fight about them. I can't answer to why Europe doesn't fight about such important stuff, if they don't.

But really, it depends on where you live in Europe as to whether it is an issue. In some parts of Europe, it is very much an issue.

	04-08-2003 03:58									#36
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quote: our own haven of backwardness (Ireland) in the EU

Labeling an opposing position as backward is pretty juvenile.

	04-08-2003 04:00									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That's what happens when Courts step into areas they shouldn't. It only serves to radicalize the debate.

What happened ? I have no idea as to why the abortion debate was radicalized in the US.

	04-08-2003 04:02									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Labeling an opposing position as backward is pretty juvenile.

That's what happens when you don't give any form of legitimacy to the opposing position in question. To me, the opposition to abortion is objectively backwards, just like slavery and torture: a sad thing that has to be get rid of for the progress of mankind.

	04-08-2003 04:10									#39
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quote: To me, the opposition to abortion is objectively backwards, just like slavery and torture: a sad thing that has to be get rid of for the progress of mankind.

Well, many here in the States, on these boards, and yes, even in Europe, would think that your position is intolerant of opposing views.

	04-08-2003 04:21									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Well, many here in the States, on these boards, and yes, even in Europe, would think that your position is intolerant of opposing views.

I am pretty tolerant on most issues, but I admit I am wholly intolerant when it comes to abortion. Maybe because I actually think more of the people's daily condition than of holier-than-thou principles.

I am intolerant as well when it comes to torture and slavery. Is that wrong ?

	04-08-2003 04:26									#41
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"Maybe because I actually think more of the people's daily condition than of holier-than-thou principles."

Such as killing being wrong?

Hey Spiffor, whatever happened to France as eldest daughter of the Church? I know Europe is very liberal but I would have thought in a country in which the population is overwhelmingly Catholic at least in name there would be some opposition. Has the Christian religion died out in France completely? If so, how do this state of affairs come about?

	04-08-2003 04:28									#42
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quote: Maybe because I actually think more of the people's daily condition than of holier-than-thou principles.

Maybe. But I doubt it.

Even though I am against abortion, pro-choicers have some very valid points to back up their position. Such is not the case with slavery.

	04-08-2003 04:32									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Hey Spiffor, whatever happened to France as eldest daughter of the Church?

It died in 1905 when the State divorced energically from the Church. It was a big commotion because of the traditional involvement of the Church in the French social life, and traces of this commotion can still be found today. That's why any debate about the role of the Church in politics is much more passionate in France than in other countries (that's also why we have so much trouble dealing with Islamic scarf at school).

Edit: I got your PM and answered. Enjoy !