03-08-2003 22:09									#1
	Hispanics tend to support Bush, tax cuts, and morality... Put an end to popups!

but not the Republican party

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...nmentandbushtoo

quote: They were twice as likely to call themselves Democrats as Republicans, viewed the Democratic Party more favorably than the Republican Party and, by a margin of 49 percent to 21 percent, said the Democratic Party was more likely to care about the needs of Hispanics.

quote: They applauded tax cuts, calling them better economic policy than reducing deficits, and embraced the use of school vouchers. They were less likely than the population at large to support the legalization of homosexual relations between consenting adults. And 44 percent of Hispanics said abortion should not be legal, compared with 22 percent of non-Hispanics.

quote: Hispanics were evenly divided on the question of whether homosexual relations between consenting adults should be legal; among the general public, this position is supported by 54 percent to 39 percent.

quote: Hispanics approved of Mr. Bush's job performance 52 to 38 percent, while 54 percent said that he "cares about the needs and problem of people like yourself." By contrast, just 40 percent of Hispanics said they had a favorable view of the Republican Party, while 60 percent said they had a favorable view of Democrats

	03-08-2003 22:24									#2
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These figures are frightening. 22% of your general population wants to make abortion illegal !? In what kind of feudal kingdom are you living!?

	03-08-2003 22:26									#3
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Spiffor:

that statistic is misleading because it dont take into account the differences between making abortions illegal and making abortions on demand illegal... a majority are against the former while a majority support the latter.

	03-08-2003 22:29									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer that statistic is misleading because it dont take into account the differences between making abortions illegal and making abortions on demand illegal

Does "abortion on demand" mean a request for abortion made by the mother in the 3 first months of pregnancy, without any justification needed ?

	03-08-2003 22:35									#5
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i'm not sure of the specific language that pollsters or pundits or interest groups or whatever use to describe abortion on demand but i believe it is first six months with no reason, last three months for any reason... the majority of americans are understandably bothered by rich people having abortions, etc. interestingly though, the majority of americans (according to my gov't textbook) are in favour of gov't funding for poor women to get free abortions. so its a odd twist that neither pro-life nor pro-choice represents

	03-08-2003 22:38									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer interestingly though, the majority of americans (according to my gov't textbook) are in favour of gov't funding for poor women to get free abortions. so its a odd twist that neither pro-life nor pro-choice represents

You have just raised my opinion of the Americans a few notches. This is an excellent idea.

	03-08-2003 22:46									#7
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Chr1st, this is why you guys can't get a date - you're living in the wrong fvckin' century, me darlins!

You should go back to the Dark Ages of Europe - say, 1200 - 1500 CE (Common Era, aka A.D.) and open a pub.

You'd be so much happier away from us non-God-fearing, anti-waste, pro-choice (which means, the choice is up to whomever the procedure will be administered), polypartisan meat-eating types.

Tek eh peekchur - eet lasts longair.

	03-08-2003 22:49									#8
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so the baby gets to decide?

Jon Miller

	03-08-2003 22:52									#9
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin Chr1st, this is why you guys can't get a date - you're living in the wrong fvckin' century, me darlins!

I have a girlfriend.
Wait, that must be because I am pro-choice and I respect women

	03-08-2003 23:08									#10
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I read that article last evening and came to the conclusion that these are your very typical Reagan Democrats (i.e., non-hispanic catholics from working-class neighborhoods) from two decades ago.

From the experience of my rather large family, the half that are against abortion will turn Republican. Abortion is a very effective wedge issue. Before you know it, many hispanics will be unable to identify with the Democrats.

	03-08-2003 23:44									#11
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so the baby gets to decide?

What do babies have to do with this? We are talking about abortion, not infanticide.

	04-08-2003 00:12									#12
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As long as Republicans are seen as a sort of "nativist" party, the hIspanic vote will remain solidly democrat: also, most Hispanics are urban, another solid democrat area. Hispanics are socially conservatives overall, but as far as tax cuts go, notice they prefer tax cuts to deficit reduction: doesn't say much about spending reductions...

African Americans are probably the same: more socially conservative than whites: that has not meant a shift from democratic support anyway.

	04-08-2003 00:33									#13
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yeah Gepap... thats what has always bothered me. ethnic minorities whether Black, hispanic, or asian are generally very socially conservative but (except for asians who do tend to vote republican) vote consistantly democrat.

the problem is that the republican party has been too protrayed as a party of rich white men which there might be some truth to. the republican party really needs to emphasize moral conservatism a bit more and back off the pro-business stance a bit... though i think being pro-business ultimatly is for the better, it does not look good in the eyes of voters. if the republican party can become more populistic (or the democrats continue heading more and more left), then it's only a matter of time before the republican party once again becomes the urban-centered party of Lincoln

	04-08-2003 00:40									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor These figures are frightening. 22% of your general population wants to make abortion illegal !? In what kind of feudal kingdom are you living!?

ironic that not killing babies would qualify one as a feudal kingdom.

	04-08-2003 00:49									#15
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Forcing women to have unwanted kids is definitely feudal in my book

I still cannot understand how the US, a presumably modern country, can still be that backwards about issues like creationism and abortion. In Europe, anti-abortionists and creationists are extremely marginal and considered as loonies or monsters by the general public. And rightly so

	04-08-2003 00:52									#16
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Anti-abortion views are still common in Europe you fool.

	04-08-2003 00:53									#17
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i think it's fair to say that most americans see europeans as loonies or monsters

	04-08-2003 01:02									#18
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quote: the republican party really needs to emphasize moral conservatism a bit more and back off the pro-business stance a bit...

No can do. There is a broad coalition in the Republican party of social conservatives + pro-business (free trade, low regulation, etc.). What you propose is something of a Buchanan Republican party. No thanks.

	04-08-2003 01:07									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Anti-abortion views are still common in Europe you fool.

In Ireland sure, and to some extent in Spain. Otherwise, anti-abortion views are very marginal

	04-08-2003 01:08									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer i think it's fair to say that most americans see europeans as loonies or monsters

Feel the love, bro

	04-08-2003 01:15									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Forcing women to have unwanted kids is definitely feudal in my book I still cannot understand how the US, a presumably modern country, can still be that backwards about issues like creationism and abortion. In Europe, anti-abortionists and creationists are extremely marginal and considered as loonies or monsters by the general public. And rightly so

oh so we forced the women to get pregnant? yah... I'm actually rather torn on the issue. but u know there is a concept in some parts of the world, its called responsibility for ur actions. sometimes ppl find it enlightening.

	04-08-2003 01:16									#22
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quote: Originally posted by yavoon oh so we forced the women to get pregnant?

Out of curiousity ... would you be in favour of giving women the option to have an abortion if they become pregnant after being raped?

	04-08-2003 01:18									#23
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Out of curiousity ... would you be in favour of giving women the option to have an abortion if they become pregnant after being raped?

I'm actually marginally in favor of abortion in general. that being said. if we lived in a better society it'd be easy. no abortions.

	04-08-2003 01:18									#24
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DanS:

a populist republican party would get the majority of black and hispanic votes... with that, we'd have a repeat of the second half of 19th century when nearly every president was republican and congress was dominated by republicans. for the sake of the GOP, it needs to become more populistic.

	04-08-2003 01:30									#25
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quote: Originally posted by yavoon oh so we forced the women to get pregnant?

Except for the obvious rape issue, pregnency can be accidental. Whether the girl forgot to take the pill that night (or cannot afford the pill outright), whether the condom was defect, whether the girl was led to accept unprotected sex by a manipulative guy (this is not rape proper), whether the RU486 pill doesn't worl, all of these elements can lead a girl to be pregnant when she didn't mean to.

I infinitely prefer contraception over abortion. All the aborting girls I know have been shocked by the experiment, and I try hard to avoid such a terrible time to my girlfriend.
However, when the pregnancy is there and the choice is between ruining two lives or performing an abortion, I don't hesitate: Destroy the few cells before it becomes a fully suffering person.

	04-08-2003 01:32									#26
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Edited by Ming... playing childish games to get around the censor will earn you a restriction if you try that crap again.

And I would advise you check your PM's... the clock is ticking.

Last edited by Ming on 04-08-2003 at 01:42

	04-08-2003 01:32									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Except for the obvious rape issue, pregnency can be accidental. Whether the girl forgot to take the pill that night (or cannot afford the pill outright), whether the condom was defect, whether the girl was led to accept unprotected sex by a manipulative guy (this is not rape proper), whether the RU486 pill doesn't worl, all of these elements can lead a girl to be pregnant when she didn't mean to. I infinitely prefer contraception over abortion. All the aborting girls I know have been shocked by the experiment, and I try hard to avoid such a terrible time to my girlfriend. However, when the pregnancy is there and the choice is between ruining two lives or performing an abortion, I don't hesitate: Destroy the few cells before it becomes a fully suffering person.

yes refer to my other post. in my morality as an adult, one accepts the consequences of ones actions. I know in socialism this isn't such a big deal. but it is to me. u can't morally pass off ur mistake(or ur misfortune) on another human being.

	04-08-2003 01:33									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer For the sake of the GOP, it needs to become more populistic.

Who'll be pro-business then ?
Maybe a more fragmented party system in the US would do better, with a populist party along Buchanan's lines, a Republican party similar to what it is now (conservative and bourgeois), a democrat party similar as well (liberal and bourgeois), and a leftist-popular party. Of course, such a remapping of the party system would mean to change your whole electoral system, which currently makes sure only two big partis can exist.

	04-08-2003 03:02									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor These figures are frightening. 22% of your general population wants to make abortion illegal !? In what kind of feudal kingdom are you living!?

That's what happens when Courts step into areas they shouldn't. It only serves to radicalize the debate.

	04-08-2003 03:17									#30
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"These figures are frightening. 22% of your general population wants to make abortion illegal !? "

I find it as frightening that your nation has become so entangled in the culture of death that it's not even an issue.