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Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 02:39 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Help me identify maths problem Support Apolyton

There's a problem in maths, IIRC, yet unsolved, but I don't remember the name. Tried Googling, but to no luck.

Here's the essence of it.

Take any number. If the number is odd, multiply it by three and add 1. If not odd, divide by 2. Do the same with the result. In the end, you'll always come to 4,2,1, which repeat forever. Like:

40. Not odd, divide by 2 =20. 20:2=10. 10:2=5. 5 odd, 5*3+1=16. 16:2=8 8:2=4 4:2=2 2:2=1 1*3+1=4

Obviously, 4,2,1 will repeat itself.

There were some good docs on this problem online, but please someone help me get the name of it!

Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 03:02
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It starts with M. I had to write a program that does stuff with this series once and I remember that I used M as the array name.

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 03:03
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What a silly observation, IMO.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 03:03 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Is the word you're looking for "recursive?"

And what's unsolvable about it? Looks pretty straightforward.

1. If you have an odd number you can represent it as, where z is an integer, 2z + 1. So if you multiply by 3 and add one, you have 6z + 4, which is even and proceed to step two.
2. If you have an even number, you can represent it as 2z. So if you halve it, you have z. If z is even, you repeat step two. If it's odd, you can generate another even number by step one. Through this process, you'll eventually generate a number that's 2z*, where z* is a positive integer, which this algorithm reduces to 22, 21, 20.

Eli is offline Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 03:04
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Nope, not M.

Collatz is the name.

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 03:04 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Wrote a program too, to check some things with it .

Ramo - it's unsolved, as it hasn't been proven. It goes down to 4,2,1 each time, but that hasn't been proven yet. While it seems simple, there's some very complex conjenctures and stuff involved...

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 03:05 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Collatz Problem it is, thanks!

Anyone interested take a look here http://www.cecm.sfu.ca/organics/pap...html/node2.html , some pretty darn complex stuff surfacing!

LulThyme
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  Old Post 05-08-2003 03:55
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ramo
how do you know you'll eventually reach a power of 2?
thats the key hole in you reasoning.
I seem to have read about this a year or so ago. Not sure its this exact one but sounded something like it and the exact proof was still not done at the time.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
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  Old Post 05-08-2003 03:59 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Yep, couldn't find an answer to that.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
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  Old Post 05-08-2003 05:39 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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I hate math . . . . .

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 08:03
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That's called the Syracause Algorithm.

panag is offline panag
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Oct 2000
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Question  Old Post 05-08-2003 13:32 Visit panag's homepage!
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hi ,

, Solver why dont you ask one of them internet math solution site's , ......


have a nice day

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 16:28 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Panag, it's an *unsolved* problem.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 05-08-2003 16:44
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If in the algorythm, instead of multiplying the odd numbers by 3 and add 1, we just add 1, the sequence repeting itself becomes 2,1. It looks like the multiplication by 3 was just there to make the repeting sequence 4,2,1.

But what was the question ?

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 16:56 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Multiplication by 3 is to get you a bigger even number then...

Question is... prove it! Noone has.

panag is offline panag
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 05-08-2003 17:07 Visit panag's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Multiplication by 3 is to get you a bigger even number then...

Question is... prove it! Noone has.



hi ,

, send a mail to the nearest university and see what they give as an answer , ......

every problem has a solution , we just have to find it , .....


panag wonders wheter the solution shall be found in the next ten years or not , ......

have a niceday

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 05-08-2003 17:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Multiplication by 3 is to get you a bigger even number then...



Any odd number multiplied by 3 is still odd; it is the adding of one which produces an even number. Hence my above observation.

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 19:34 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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I know it's adding of one that produces an even number, didn't bother to write. Multiplication by 3 is, though, again, to get a big enough even number (when you add 1).

Panag, if I mail a uni, they're not gonna solve it all of a sudden if noone previously could .

panag is offline panag
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 05-08-2003 19:46 Visit panag's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
I know it's adding of one that produces an even number, didn't bother to write. Multiplication by 3 is, though, again, to get a big enough even number (when you add 1).

Panag, if I mail a uni, they're not gonna solve it all of a sudden if noone previously could .



hi ,

thats true , but héy , they might come up with a reason as to why , bla - bla , scientifical explanation , etc , ......


have a nice day

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 05-08-2003 19:50 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Well, it surely enough can be proved...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:30
  Old Post 06-08-2003 09:49
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You could try proving it yourself. Fame awaits.

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 06-08-2003 17:47 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Yeah, I surely could, but I found the problem to be a little bit complex .

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