05-08-2003 13:43									#1
	Are ladies nights discriminatory against men? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Okay I was watching some local news in San Diego, and these bunch of guys get together and file lawsuits against clubs in the downtown district that have ladies nights. From the letter of the law, you are not allowed to discriminate based on race, creed, gender etc.

While in theory they are discriminatory, those ladies night serve a very important purpose. They bring in women . What guy want to go to a club with a small selection of women in them? Although I think maybe these guys who filed this lawsuit are gay That would explain alot.


Anyways, ladies night bring in more ladies, which in turn, brings in more guys. It's a win-win situation.

And how exactly is it discriminating? They still let the guys in, they just have to pay more.

	05-08-2003 13:55									#2
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i just get my female friends to buy me my drinks. so its all good.

	05-08-2003 15:38									#3
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quote: What guy want to go to a club with a small selection of women in them?

A small selection of naked women??

Its stupid, stop pandering to political correctness!! , or in this case rather a political correctness against political correctness.

	05-08-2003 15:43									#4
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They are discriminatory against men, but it's their right to discriminate. I reckon you might be right about the guys bringing the lawsuit being gay. Why would any hetero male in their right mind be against girls getting in free?

	05-08-2003 17:19									#5
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Methinks it's a backlash suit, a "We can't have our golf courses, you can't have your free drinks" sort of thing.

	05-08-2003 17:55									#6
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Ladies nights are a form of discrimination just like forcing black men to pay twice the regular price would be discrimination.

We agree the outcome is good (more women at the club ), but the method does suck.

	05-08-2003 18:07									#7
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I don't see how you could say it's discriminating to men when at the same time you acknowledge that it's purpose is to get more women there - for the the men.

	05-08-2003 18:16									#8
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I don't see how they could be discriminatory.

1) The policy is as much geared to attracting men as it is to attracting women.
2) Men don't have to pay any more than they would usually do to attend the club. It's a bias towards women, not a bias against men.

	05-08-2003 18:39									#9
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do i care about this..........

	05-08-2003 18:41									#10
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no

	05-08-2003 18:52									#11
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Okay, I'll grant from the start that the suit originates from guys with too much time on their hands and too little sense of what Ladies Night is for (my theory? Their Xboxes are broken). I'm just going to play Devil's Advocate here. The thing is, from a legal standpoint, the motive for Ladies Night doesn't matter. What matters is the outcome, which is a difference in the price for the same goods and services, based on the gender of the person purchasing the goods and services. So, here's the question:

If a downtown nightclub near you had a "whites night," during which white people got free admission to the club and cheaper drinks, would that be discriminatory? Because it's the same thing.

	05-08-2003 19:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly What matters is the outcome, which is a difference in the price for the same goods and services, based on the gender of the person purchasing the goods and services.

If that's the important aspect, then we must consider hair salons, dry cleaners, etc. where a women gets charged more for the same service provided to men.

	05-08-2003 19:56									#13
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quote: If that's the important aspect, then we must consider hair salons, dry cleaners, etc. where a women gets charged more for the same service provided to men.

However at those places women's hair and clothes require more work, therefore the higher price. There is an important distinction.

Anyway, these are private clubs, and thus they may discriminate based on gender (just like women's or men's gyms may).

	05-08-2003 19:58									#14
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Yes of course it is discrimination.

So long as there is a consistent attitude to this I don't mind. Inconsistency (ie, in my local gym, a women's only section, but no men's only section) is what bothers me.

* the women's section will soon be converted..then everyone can use it. Due to low usage.

	05-08-2003 20:07									#15
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quote: Originally posted by rah If that's the important aspect, then we must consider hair salons, dry cleaners, etc. where a women gets charged more for the same service provided to men.

Where I live, women definitely don't have the same service in hair salons. The service given to women is much more thorought than the ordinary service given to men. I find it somehow strange that the minimal service for women is not the same as for men though.

	05-08-2003 20:52									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui However at those places women's hair and clothes require more work, therefore the higher price. There is an important distinction.

My stylist spends as much time on my hair as most of his woman client. He says there is no difference 90% of the time. And he said there are a few men that are harder than women.

There is no difference drycleaning a 100% cotton blouse vs. a 100% cotton shirt. Yet the blouse is more expensive.

	05-08-2003 20:57									#17
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"My stylist spends as much time on my hair as most of his woman client. He says there is no difference 90% of the time."

Women like to pay a price premium that says nothing about the quality of a product but only about their relative status among other females.

They like men who do the same as well. See flash cars, for example.

	05-08-2003 20:58									#18
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rah: most men, however, don't go to a stylist

Last edited by Japher on 05-08-2003 at 21:16

	05-08-2003 21:00									#19
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quote: "My stylist spends as much time on my hair as most of his woman client. He says there is no difference 90% of the time."

And does that say more about the inefficiencies/inequalities in the hairdressing market, or about Rah's hair?

	05-08-2003 21:01									#20
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Women do get charged more for the same things as men such as clothing and hair stylyng, and this is doen ebcuase men are less willing to pay higher prices: women are not. Far fewer men would accept 50 dolar haircuts than women, far less 90 dolar haircuts.

As for ladies night: while I can see where the suit comes form, it silly. Obviously it is an attempt by bars to increase their customer base by trying to lure women, who are far less inclined to go anyway, in. BY having more women, you hope you get more horny men too, and thus, you win. I can't see how a "white's night" would serve the same economic basis.

	05-08-2003 21:08									#21
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i mean seriously, i've seen your haircut rah, if he spends about the same time on men and women, just imagine what the women must come out like

	05-08-2003 21:15									#22
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Is Rah still a mod? I can't remember, he never does anything..anyway, if he is, I wouldn't expect to be a Prince for much longer.

	05-08-2003 22:57									#23
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well to be fair, they should charge per strands of hair cut, not by gender.

Women on average have more hair than men- it is almost always thicker and longer.

therefore they should have to pay more.

I would like them to devise some system of measuring how much hair is cut off (maybe weigh the hair on a sensitive scale). Because I don't think men who are nearly bald should have to pay the same price as some hippy with hair halfway down his back .

	05-08-2003 23:46									#24
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It's one of those things...

Yes it is dscriminatory for the women to be charged a different price than the men for the same service. However, why complain if you are the men? I would say the benefit of having more women in the club would far outweigh the detriment of having to pay higher prices.

Secondly, no one forces the men to frequent the particular nightclub. If they don't like the different prices for men and women, then they are free to go elsewhere.

	06-08-2003 00:11									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Is Rah still a mod? I can't remember, he never does anything..anyway, if he is, I wouldn't expect to be a Prince for much longer.

Unlike you, most people heed my warnings, so there is no need to do anything more.
If you would like the obligatory ban, I'd be happy to oblige you.

	06-08-2003 03:35									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Okay, I'll grant from the start that the suit originates from guys with too much time on their hands and too little sense of what Ladies Night is for (my theory? Their Xboxes are broken). I'm just going to play Devil's Advocate here. The thing is, from a legal standpoint, the motive for Ladies Night doesn't matter. What matters is the outcome, which is a difference in the price for the same goods and services, based on the gender of the person purchasing the goods and services. So, here's the question: If a downtown nightclub near you had a "whites night," during which white people got free admission to the club and cheaper drinks, would that be discriminatory? Because it's the same thing.

Yes, it would be discriminatory, but I think everyone should have the right to discriminate. To discriminate is to choose, and I want to live in a world in which I can make my own choices thank you very much.

	06-08-2003 03:39									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's And does that say more about the inefficiencies/inequalities in the hairdressing market, or about Rah's hair?

I'll leave it for you to decide...

	06-08-2003 03:55									#28
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I think women should get in free everywhere they go, and me of course...

	06-08-2003 03:57									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Okay, I'll grant from the start that the suit originates from guys with too much time on their hands and too little sense of what Ladies Night is for (my theory? Their Xboxes are broken). I'm just going to play Devil's Advocate here. The thing is, from a legal standpoint, the motive for Ladies Night doesn't matter. What matters is the outcome, which is a difference in the price for the same goods and services, based on the gender of the person purchasing the goods and services. So, here's the question: If a downtown nightclub near you had a "whites night," during which white people got free admission to the club and cheaper drinks, would that be discriminatory? Because it's the same thing.

This would be to increase the number of whites attending the club right? Would it be fair to say that the club would do this because the nonwhites were complaining about the fact that there weren't enough whites at the club? Would the club have "Whites Night" then in an attempt to increase the likelihood of a non-white to "pick-up" a white person, thereby appeasing the non-whites who frequent the club? Woukld the aftermath of this White Night be a bunch of chalky looking folks lying around in gutters complaining about the pains in their body parts? Gee, I don't know if anyone is really going to complain about this.

	06-08-2003 04:00									#30
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Against my better judgement, I'll just say: Maybe the people at this non-white bar are hoping to score with some white women, so they lure in white couples, beat the hell out of the men, and have their way with the women...