06-08-2003 00:20									#1
	Morale in the Military? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Over the last couple years, starting in about '98, I have been reading and hearing of a general worsening of morale in the US military. From issues about peacekeeping usage, military cuts, and a major rift between soldiers and the brass/political policymakers. Granted, besides a few scattered articles, my info comes from 10 people or so in our nations military, so this might be bias, but has anybody else heard of this situation? I have really noticed it since the fall of Afghanistan and the begining of the Iraq mess.

	06-08-2003 00:22									#2
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I'm not really sure.

But morale was very low in the Clinton years. I'm not sure why. I guess they didn't like a democratic president . Clinton wasn't that bad though.

But we were going through some serious cutbacks at the time. But they weren't "firing" anyone. But they did allow for early retirement programs, and did a concerted effort to boot out the fat squids, and really pushed the phsyical fitness program.

	06-08-2003 00:24									#3
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A lot of people signed up for the nice government benefits thinking they would never have to serve in a war zone. Most of them got a rude awakening.

	06-08-2003 00:25									#4
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rah

I recall a sign I saw on CNN... "One weekend a month my ass!"

	06-08-2003 00:31									#5
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quote: Originally posted by rah A lot of people signed up for the nice government benefits thinking they would never have to serve in a war zone. Most of them got a rude awakening.

Very, very true. Reminds me of a commerical for a MTV troops diary. One of them said "I didn't join the navy to fight a war".
WTF were you expecting?

BTW, one of my friends, a lifer currently in Afghanistan, says that many lifers are mad at a war (Iraq) that is seen as conducted by Bush as a personal vendetta, and the real battle for terror is being sidestepped.

	06-08-2003 00:37									#6
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quote: Originally posted by gopher Very, very true. Reminds me of a commerical for a MTV troops diary. One of them said "I didn't join the navy to fight a war". WTF were you expecting?

University vouchers or something ? I was under the impression that many people join the army to be able to study afterwards.

	06-08-2003 00:37									#7
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quote: Very, very true. Reminds me of a commerical for a MTV troops diary. One of them said "I didn't join the navy to fight a war". WTF were you expecting?

Maybe some soldiers have the ideal to defend the homeland when joining the military. I suppose not all soldiers like it to get send somewhere to fight a war for questionable reasons.

	06-08-2003 00:38									#8
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well I was in the navy. And we don't fight wars. We leave that for the army, marines, and pilots.

There was little chance Iraq could hit a ship with a missile.

In war, or not in war. My job in the navy was the same- to make the ship go through the water. The only differences are longer deployment, and lack of port calls while at war.

I didn't actually do any fighting. Though I should mention I was under the Clinton administration- and Clinton was nice enough not to start any wars.

	06-08-2003 00:40									#9
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Yup, my brother-in-law was about to drop out of the reserves when his third son was born because he now needed to be at home more (as his wife told him). He enjoyed doing the reserves and had been in it since he graduated from college a looooong time ago. He then realized that he stayed one more year his kids would qualify for the G.I. Bill. HA! He's spending that last year somewhere in the middle east.

It took two fights with my wife before I convinced her why I am not and she should not feel sorry for him. Though we both worry for him and our nephews.

	06-08-2003 00:41									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor University vouchers or something ? I was under the impression that many people join the army to be able to study afterwards.

True, perhaps I was a bit unclear with what I meant .
Ok, lets try this: You joined the US MILITARY. Where your main job involved WAR and FIGHTING in various capacities. Joining the military assuming that you will go through it without being put in a position that involves those concepts is short-sighted, ignorant, and increadibly naive.
The National Guard I can understand the point a little more than the regular forces, but the same concept is applied.

	06-08-2003 00:42									#11
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Isn't Bush going to send the national guard over there now?

I personally believe the national guard should never be deployed outside the U.S. borders.

	06-08-2003 00:43									#12
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My neighbor finished his time in the Army about 3 months before the war started. He is a Ranger. Last time I saw him, about a month after Christmas, he was head out to reenlist.

	06-08-2003 00:45									#13
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After the First Gulf War until recently, reservists were very very rarely ever called to active duty. That is a pretty long period of time. People thought it was a safe bet for money and benefits.

	06-08-2003 00:51									#14
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Isn't the Nat Guard now being considered for US peacekeeping measures or for occupation duty so the rapid deployment troops can head to Korea or Liberia or Columbia?

Edit: Rapid, instead of fast. Plus this run on sentance would make my grammer teacher back in school cry. But hell, I won't fix it, f**k her and her reflexive verbs.

	06-08-2003 01:37									#15
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Some of the guard already has to go overseas, regardless. I have a buddy in the NYS Guard, and he's required to go overseas for a year. He's trying to get Afghanistan for the combat benefits or Bosnia for something long and boring.

I suspect as the Guard is reorganized (NY is reshaping the Guard to serve as MPs), there may be more deployments on special missions.

	06-08-2003 01:39									#16
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By Spc. Bill Putnam
July 23, 2003

WASHINGTON (Army News Service July 23, 2003) – Gen. Jack Keane said that
most units deploying to Iraq over the next few months can expect stays
of up to one year when he announced the unit rotation schedule July 23.
“What we have done is taken (Gen. John Abizaid’s) requirements and his
needs, and looked at the forces in Iraq, and devised a plan to meet
those needs,” said Keane, the acting Army chief of Staff. Abizaid is the
commander of Central Command.

Here’s how the rotation schedule for Iraq currently looks:

· The 82nd Airborne Division will replace the 3rd Infantry Division by
September. Only one brigade and the division headquarters from the 82nd
Airborne will deploy to Iraq. Two of the division’s brigades are
currently deployed, one is in Afghanistan and the one in Iraq will
re-deploy by January.

· The 1st Infantry Division will deploy from Germany to replace the 4th
Infantry Division by April.

· The 1st Cavalry Division will replace both the 2nd Armored Cavalry
Regiment and the 1st Armored Division by April.

· The Army’s first Stryker Brigade Combat Team, the 3rd Brigade, 2nd
Infantry Division, will replace the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment by
March 2004.

· The 173rd Airborne Brigade will re-deploy back to Italy by April.

· A multinational division will replace the 101st Airborne Division by
February.

· Two Army National Guard Enhanced Separate Brigade Teams will deploy
with the 1st ID and the 1st Cavalry. Keane didn’t name the Guard units
tapped for deployment, though.

The one exception to the 12-month deployments are the Guard brigades,
said Keane. They will be mobilized for one year but will spend six
months in Iraq.

Deployments beyond that one-year period are still being looked at, said
Keane and Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the vice-director of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff.

Keane said it was important to understand the three guidelines that are
driving the new Iraq rotation policy.

Abizaid needs a force large enough to defeat the guerilla movements that
threaten securing Iraq.

To do that, a predictable number of soldiers on the ground are needed.
An intended rotation plan of 12 months was the solution to that, Keane
said.

Recognizing that most units deploying to Iraq will come from the Army,
the military wants to use active-duty units from all branches of the
U.S. military, said Keane. Engineer units from the Air Force or Navy
might be deployed in place of Army engineer units, he explained.

The schedule will also allow the use of Reserve volunteers and
reserve-component units that haven’t been mobilized recently to “balance
the stress across the board,” Keane said.

The Army also wanted to have units ready for the war on terrorism and
other contingencies like North Korea, Keane said.

Eliminating or reducing participation in exercises and other commitments
is a part of that, he said.

“Internationalizing” the force in Iraq is also a goal of the U.S., he
said. British and Italian army units are already on the ground with more
nations contributing later.

Other nations like Poland and the Netherlands are sending troops and
more nations can be expected to contribute later this year, said Keane
and McChrystal.

The new U.S. units sent to Iraq will also assist the Coalition
Provisional Authority in developing the new Iraqi police force,
provincial defense force and national army, he said.

Once those Iraqi units are established, most of the security tasks will
be handed over to them as quickly as possible, Keane said.

Contractors will also be used to provide logistical and training support
and reduce the numbers of troops down as well, Keane said.

Although he didn’t say specifically what they were, Keane said that
quality of life and incentive issues to support the year-long rotations
will be established.

The plan, as envisioned, “will allow time for the security situation to
improve” in Iraq, Keane said.

Keane also announced the rotation schedule for Bosnia, Kosovo, the Sinai
and Afghanistan. Deployments to those theaters will continue to be six
months.

· A brigade from the 10th Mountain Division will replace the one from
the 82nd Airborne Division in Afghanistan by August.

· The 34th Infantry Division, from Minnesota, will replace the 35th ID
in Bosnia by September, and the 28th ID, from Pennsylvania, in Kosovo by
February.

· Sister battalions in the 34th ID will replace each other in the Sinai
by January.

Unit manning during deployments has always been a challenge throughout
the Army’s history and subsequent policies have done their best to
address the theater commander’s needs, said Keane.

Entire units were deployed for “the duration” of World War II, said
Keane. The one exception to that were aircraft crews who flew a set
number of missions before going back to the U.S. for training, Keane
said.

A unit rotation schedule was developed for combat units during the
Korean War depending on that unit’s job. Infantry, tank and artillery
units spent six months on the front; administrative and support units
had 12-month deployments. Eventually a complicated point system for
individual soldiers was worked out, Keane said.

During Vietnam, a soldier spent one year in country on an individual
basis. It didn’t matter what job he held, Keane said.

In 1982, a six-month deployment was used for the Sinai mission.

A 12-month deployment was used initially in Bosnia but then a six-month
deployment system was developed in 1996. That system has been used since
and now is used in Kosovo, he said.

The six-month unit deployments are in use today in Afghanistan, said
Keane.

Currently the Army has 368,000 soldiers deployed to 120 countries around
the world, Keane said. There are 133,000 soldiers in Iraq with another
34,000 soldiers in Kuwait supporting them. Keane did not say how many
were active Army, National Guard or Army Reserve.

More than 30,000 soldiers are in Korea; 1,000 are in the Phillippines;
1,500 soldiers are serving in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; 5,100 soldiers serve
in the Balkans; and just under 10,000 are in Afghanistan.

More than 28,000 soldiers, most from the National Guard and Reserve, are
deployed in the U.S. for homeland security

Twenty-four of the 33 active Army Brigade Combat Teams, or 73 percent,
are deployed overseas.

Fifteen of the National Guard’s 45 Enhanced Separate Battalion Combat
Teams, or 33 percent are also deployed overseas, Keane said.

	06-08-2003 04:25									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I didn't actually do any fighting. Though I should mention I was under the Clinton administration- and Clinton was nice enough not to start any wars.

Except for that war with Yugoslavia, and he bombed Iraq quite frequently.

	06-08-2003 05:31									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I didn't actually do any fighting. Though I should mention I was under the Clinton administration- and Clinton was nice enough not to start any wars.

*Cough* Operation Desert Fox *Cough*

	06-08-2003 05:50									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar *Cough* Operation Desert Fox *Cough*

You prefer Nyquil or Dayquil?

	06-08-2003 05:58									#20
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liqourquil

	06-08-2003 06:02									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar liqourquil

	06-08-2003 06:07									#22
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Desert Fox?

Was that the Monica Lewinsky distracter/

I did not mention Kosovo. But that was more like a conflict.

I did do operations in support of all the activity in that region in the 90's. I got some award for that. But I didn't actually do anything except make the ship go through the water as usual.

	06-08-2003 06:12									#23
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Yes. The infamous Asprin Factory Bombing was too.

	06-08-2003 07:16									#24
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quote: Originally posted by panag Fifteen of the National Guard’s 45 Enhanced Separate Battalion Combat

Guess who my unit is not waiting on The good old 39th Infantry Brigade out of Arkansas.


As for morale. It always sucks when your deployed and have no idea when your comming home. Then again we did sign the contract. I think some of the hard feelings recently have been because some of the units that have been sitting over since the beggining are there while some of the higher officers have rotated out already. In part some of the problems are a result of the military trying to push the at home atmosphere while they are in the states wth their families snuggled up tight. Then when **** hits the fan, hubby or wife are suddenly at war. You have to go back to some of the older folks that were around for Vietnam to get that war time feeling.

The national guard is a different story. They push the two days a month, three weeks a year thing and no where do a lot of them expect to be deployed to a war zone. Lots of the Army's logistics and maintence is filled my national guard and reserve. They cut the regular force so much that they had no choice but to send The NG and R to places like Kosovo and Bosnia and Egypt. By next month nearly all of the Arkansas National Guard will be depolyed or have just got off depolyment. Those that come back have been told not to get too used to home. Your next rotation is just around the corner. The day I left for deployment, I was supposed to start a new job. That was in March. Will it be there when I get back? That is still a question that is yet to be answered.