07-08-2003 05:46									#1
	740 AD Minister of War Poll - Organization Full PM-box? Change here!

To bring some structure to our military efforts, and to help us deal with the scale of this world, I propose that we consider arranging our cities into Provinces. This would be for the purpose of organizing our military actions and the support of them, not for any civil government purposes nor “sub-Ministers” or anything like that.

Each Province would be responsible for collecting, constructing, and supporting the units needed to confront a separate enemy civ. Our decision to attack a particular civ (in other words, in which order) will be based on the local ability to mount an attack. Each Province will collect an army at a central point within it best suited as a launch point.

My proposed Provinces are as follows:

1. From Havoc north and west to Veii (The Gaulic Province) to engage the Romans and find the cities they have established in previously-explored territory.

2. Pestilence, Rack, and Ruin (The Apache Province) to engage the Americans from the west and locate all their cities through exploration.

3. Devastation, Famine, and New Apocalyps (The Persian Province) to engage the Greeks and explore their territory.

4. The Homeland Province (our core cities) will be used to radiate units outwards when possible, but will mainly be supporting our science and fund-raising efforts (Xinning at the moment) to support the Apolyton Imperium as a whole.

Only the Gaulic Province is nearly in a position to fulfill its mission at the moment, but that does not negate the concept. Indeed, we want to take on only one enemy civ at a time (for now, anyway). Our rushbuilds and focus should be on that area first. When the Romans are reduced to a single city (which we will surround and keep alive but weak), the majority of our units there will move east to encircle the Americans. Etc.

Individual far-flung units will continue to explore to seek out the civs we have not found yet, and tip huts as they go. Settlers will continue to build roads to connect our Provinces first and the cities within our Provinces second. Diplomats will establish embassies with every civ we find so we can monitor the cities they have remaining to be conquered or left surviving to prevent new civs from arising.

Having a long-term strategy is the first step to success!

	07-08-2003 06:12									#2
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Gaulic Province:

Attachment: gaul.jpg
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	07-08-2003 06:13									#3
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Apache Province:

Attachment: apache.jpg
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	07-08-2003 06:13									#4
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Persian Province:

Attachment: persian.jpg
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	07-08-2003 06:17									#5
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Homeland Province:

Attachment: homeland.jpg
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	07-08-2003 06:20									#6
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The whole purpose of this is to bring some focus to our military use and production, so as to best when and how to bring our forces to bear on our enemies.

The specific strategies for accomplishing this will be the subject of the next MOW poll. Best to know if the concept is agreeable to the Citizens, first, before getting involved in details.

	07-08-2003 07:22									#7
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I think the organizational strategy is relatively good, but I don't think that we should be too rigid. Some of the outlying cities can be used for Xinning or general production, and for the moment most of these regions are not going to be able to mount any sort of military campaign without major support from the rest. I would argue that our main priority is to finish off the Romans, discover Explosives and Railroad, and construct a massive rail system so that we can immediately move units to the front.

	07-08-2003 09:26									#8
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I agree with both of you, though I think Dominion may be closer to the Greeks then we realize, and that it should be in that "Province".

Other then that, I like the concept, though I am unsure how you plan to implement it in game terms.

* Sparrowhawk , Citizen

	07-08-2003 15:29									#9
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Sounds a good way of organising things, certainly.

But what is the purpose of leaving one weak Roman city alive? Surely surrounding it just adds to upkeep costs?

	07-08-2003 16:06									#10
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Sounds a good way of organising things, certainly. But what is the purpose of leaving one weak Roman city alive? Surely surrounding it just adds to upkeep costs?

Apparently, destroyed civs get re-established in this game.

	07-08-2003 20:53									#11
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no one told me not to disable that function...... I was quite clear when i created the game that everything, from colours of civ etc etc etc should be brought to my attention, anything that was not mentioned i did not do.... whats the matter you don't like a wittle challenge....?

	07-08-2003 22:04									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Sounds a good way of organising things, certainly. But what is the purpose of leaving one weak Roman city alive? Surely surrounding it just adds to upkeep costs?

No need to surround it. Just need an unbribable surveillance team to keep tabs on it. Best method is to drain its defenders, then just check for the flag each turn.

	07-08-2003 22:12									#13
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Or we could just continue killing them until the next two respawns are dead too...

	07-08-2003 22:53									#14
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quote: Originally posted by CannonFodder Or we could just continue killing them until the next two respawns are dead too...

Just that it will become tedious searching out the single city of a reborn civ established in previously-explored territory.

	07-08-2003 22:54									#15
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quote: Originally posted by CannonFodder Or we could just continue killing them until the next two respawns are dead too...

Exactly! We don't need to fear restarting Civs, just more for a Minister of War to do...unless our Minister of War is a little worried about extra "work"?

	08-08-2003 02:24									#16
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Or we can treat visiting ambassadors to our new zoo exhibit, the 'Glorious Roman Empire.'

Should that not aid our negotiations?

	08-08-2003 03:34									#17
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Just crush them and then we can have fun crushing them again

	08-08-2003 08:16									#18
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If we were to go ahead with the surrounding idea to avoid respawns (they end around 1750AD, I believe...?), then perhaps just a couple of Crusaders would be enough. Not right next to the city, of course, but they could dash in every few turns to check for defenders. What tech level are they likely at? If we know what sort of unit to expect and it's not as advanced as Pikemen, we will be able to take down any defenders easily.

	08-08-2003 18:58									#19
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What is the problem if they respawn?

They will be defenseless anyway and with a bit of luck they'll respawn in someone elses backyard.

	08-08-2003 19:25									#20
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Well if we want to win this game, it ain't going to be through the SS unless we suddenly get REALLY lucky. It's going to be through conquest, and with a map like this we might be searching for lost cities/civs forever, as we won't be able to cover all that much of the map at once. And we can pretty much count out the Apollo Program too, unless another civ gets it and we take it off them - also pretty unlikely.

We will need to kill each civ as we see it without having it respawn elsewhere, so this surrounding idea may be a very good move, if tricky to pull off. A shame - if this was Civ3 it would have the extra benefit of allowing us to "train" our troops against the pathetic Romans forever, giving us Great Leaders with which to build armies!

Having dispensed that little bit of Civ3 Strategy to a forum full of Civ3-haters, I hastily step out of the way of the shower of rotten bananas that suddenly occupies the position from which I was talking...

	08-08-2003 19:54									#21
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"Hate" is such a strong world...
In fact, the problem is that you're off-topic, MWIA.
This is the Civilization II forum.
Don't confuse with foreign strategies.

	08-08-2003 22:43									#22
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We are dedicated to a military conquest anyway, so even if we reached SS technology, we wouldn't be able to use it.

	09-08-2003 00:06									#23
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Confirming what MWIA said, just read in another thread (Strategy forum iirc) that the "no more respawns" date is 1750 on Deity level.

So we have 1,000 years to round them up...

	09-08-2003 00:13									#24
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quote: so even if we reached SS technology, we wouldn't be able to use it.

No wonders certainly keeps our ambitions grounded.

I say keep a zoo, and then crush them after 1750. Why should we worry about respawns?

	09-08-2003 04:40									#25
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I didn't know they stopped respawning after 1750. That's good to now. Thanks. So we know a date when we can kill them off safely...