08-08-2003 10:15									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Peter Ueberroth, former Baseball Commish and fomer US Olympic President, may also run from the Republican side. He doesn't seem to have a bad resume for this job at all. He turned around the '84 LA Olympics, earning him "Time's Man of the Year" and headed "Rebuild LA", designed to rebuild economically depressed areas of Los Angeles. Should be interesting.

I can only hope for the Republican Party that Peter Uberroth does not run. We do not need Republican votes split between two very good candidates. This can only hand the state back to the Democrats.

	08-08-2003 10:20									#122
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DP

Last edited by Ned on 08-08-2003 at 10:52

	08-08-2003 10:22									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Exactly, he's a Democrat. California is a solidly Democratic state, Ted. Two Democratic Senators, a Democratic house contigent and the Democrats control the state legislature. The Republicans have virtually no political clout in the state, and Democrats are going to come out in force, either to oppose the recall or to ensure the governorship remains Democratic. Either way, this will be a huge plus for Bustamante. He also will get a natural draw on Hispanic voters, which is a pretty significant part of the California electorate. In fact, without winning at least a bare majority of the Hispanic vote, I'd say a Republican doesn't stand a chance of winning a statewide election in California these days.

Yeah, they are going to come out in force just like they came out in force to stop the recall movement.

quote: It doesn't matter, though, because nobody in CA is going to give a **** about Proposition 49, which is small potatoes next to the state's other issues and problems.

Exactly my point. I just said that. What they DO care about is that they have seen him politically at work in the past and recognize him for what he has done.

quote: As for the energy problems, just watch the Dems splash Enron's name all over as the culprit for state woes, and then make the handy tie of the current Republican administration to Enron's fallen leaders. That will certainly entice CA voters to go for the GOP, suuuuuure!

YEAH RIGHT

That's the main reason everyone is pissed off at Davis in the first place! When sh1t hits the fan he starts finger pointing! People are sick and tired of it! They want leadership, someone to take responsibility and not just act like a damn weasel.

Finger pointing to Enron isn't going to work. Sorry.

	08-08-2003 11:41									#124
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Unless they get Gary Coleman to play the Terminator.

Now that is scary.

	08-08-2003 11:42									#125
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Was Arnold's father really a nazi?

I had never heard of that before. But Katie Couric mentioned something about that.

	08-08-2003 13:39									#126
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quote: quote: quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Second California is the worst run state in terms of the buget in the nation. We also have a buget deficit larger then the all the other 47 other states that are in debt. Thrid the Buget he signed in to law does not solve the under lying problems, and everyone on wallstreet says as much, and Gray admitted as well when he sign the buget. Originally posted by mindseye I think maybe you need to examine the role of the Republicans in the state congress, if you are looking for someone to blame the current budget on. quote: Originally posted by Sikander Yea, if it weren't for the people who are far in the minority and don't hold the governorship we wouldn't be in this mess. quote: Originally posted by JohnT Hmmm. Democrats hold the 8 State Constitutionally mandated offices in the state, 25 out of 40 Senate seats (63%) and 48 of 80 seats in the House (60%). Perhaps these sort of figures aren't available in China??? quote: quote: Originally posted by MtG Any tax increase of any kind has to be approved by a supermajority, so Republicans do have a lot of influence in the state budget process. Originally posted by John T Define "supermajority." 60%? 75%?

Sikander and JohnT:
As MtG noted, California law requires a supermajority - of 2/3 - in both houses for approval of any tax increase. This gave the Republican minority the ability to derail Davis' budget. Paul Krugman sums it up better than I could:

quote: But California's Constitution requires that budgets be passed in the State Legislature by a two-thirds' margin - which gives the Republican minority blocking power. And that minority has refused either to vote for any tax increase, or to make realistic proposals for spending cuts. (...) This time Governor Davis proposed (tax increases similar to those of former Republican governor Pete Wilson) - but Senate Republicans refused to go along. Their counterproposal relied entirely on spending cuts - but, tellingly, offered no specifics about what, exactly, should be cut. http://truthout.org/docs_03/080203C.shtml

quote: Originally posted by JohnT Perhaps these sort of figures aren't available in China???

I lived in California for over 18 years prior to moving to China.

	08-08-2003 16:10									#127
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye quote: quote: quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Second California is the worst run state in terms of the buget in the nation. We also have a buget deficit larger then the all the other 47 other states that are in debt. Thrid the Buget he signed in to law does not solve the under lying problems, and everyone on wallstreet says as much, and Gray admitted as well when he sign the buget. Originally posted by mindseye I think maybe you need to examine the role of the Republicans in the state congress, if you are looking for someone to blame the current budget on. quote: Originally posted by Sikander Yea, if it weren't for the people who are far in the minority and don't hold the governorship we wouldn't be in this mess. quote: Originally posted by JohnT Hmmm. Democrats hold the 8 State Constitutionally mandated offices in the state, 25 out of 40 Senate seats (63%) and 48 of 80 seats in the House (60%). Perhaps these sort of figures aren't available in China??? quote: quote: Originally posted by MtG Any tax increase of any kind has to be approved by a supermajority, so Republicans do have a lot of influence in the state budget process. Originally posted by John T Define "supermajority." 60%? 75%? Sikander and JohnT: As MtG noted, California law requires a supermajority - of 2/3 - in both houses for approval of any tax increase. This gave the Republican minority the ability to derail Davis' budget. Paul Krugman sums it up better than I could: quote: But California's Constitution requires that budgets be passed in the State Legislature by a two-thirds' margin - which gives the Republican minority blocking power. And that minority has refused either to vote for any tax increase, or to make realistic proposals for spending cuts. (...) This time Governor Davis proposed (tax increases similar to those of former Republican governor Pete Wilson) - but Senate Republicans refused to go along. Their counterproposal relied entirely on spending cuts - but, tellingly, offered no specifics about what, exactly, should be cut. http://truthout.org/docs_03/080203C.shtml quote: Originally posted by JohnT Perhaps these sort of figures aren't available in China??? I lived in California for over 18 years prior to moving to China.

I was aware of this actually. The reason that the Repubs are acting up is that they have a rare chance to have some say in a state that is heavily gerrymandered against them. In other words they are holding out for a better deal, but one that the dems aren't willing to offer. The only reason that this annual game is any different this year is that the dems (especially Davis) are in political trouble now, and the price of poker has gone up. They know full well that it is the dems who will take most of the blame if they can't put together a compromise, and the dems should take most of the blame, as the vast majority of the state budget consists of decades worth of democrat programs and payoffs to various democrat constituencies. It's ugly, but it's also how things always work in the statehouse. My dad lives in one of the few republican bastians in the state. It's the only area in greater LA which hasn't received any money for its roads or other local manifestations of state largesse. It's being starved for voting the "wrong" way, literally for decades.

IIRC there has been a tentative deal on the budget reached in the last several days, so apparantly one or both sides has moved a bit.

Btw, Krugman isn't the world's greatest source. He's very partisan, and often intellectually dishonest, which is quite disconcerting given his credentials. But the crux of this information is accurate AFAICT.

	08-08-2003 18:18									#128
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quote: or to make realistic proposals for spending cuts...

(From the Krugman editorial piece quoted by mindseye.)

1. Editorial/Opinion pieces are not evidence. This is just a general opinion I hold, after all, I don't debate by quoting Thomas Sewell.

2. Define "realistic."

So what you're telling me is that the Republicans won't raise taxes in an already-heavily taxed state, and the Dems won't cut the budget.

To be honest about it, this doesn't seem a problem of either party, but a structural problem in regards to the "Supermajority" needed to raise taxes. When was the supermajority passed, who signed it into law, and which party controlled the House/Senate when passed?

	08-08-2003 18:22									#129
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Nevermind, I found it:

quote: A constitutional provision dating back to 1879 requires a two-thirds vote for general fund appropriations for purposes other than public schools (Const., Art. IV, Sec. 12). Because the Legislature typically passes one main budget bill, the requirement has effectively applied to the whole budget bill.

1879!

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/fiscal/lbsupmaj.htm

	08-08-2003 18:25									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Yeah, they are going to come out in force just like they came out in force to stop the recall movement.

Um, how could they stop the recall movement again? Considering getting a recall vote is simply a matter of collecting a enough signatures (and a really small percentage of the voting population, to boot), this is a pretty pointless remark. Regardless, the fact that Davis is unpopular even with Democrats doesnt' seem to be having any effect on Bustamante's popularity, despite your (unsubstantiated) claims.

quote: Exactly my point. I just said that. What they DO care about is that they have seen him politically at work in the past and recognize him for what he has done.

You're saying his work on Prop 49 will somehow help him, I'm saying it won't make a bit of difference to the voters. Unless Arnie can create a real strategy for the budget mess (seen one yet?), then he's just one of several celebrity candidates with no credentials.

quote: YEAH RIGHT That's the main reason everyone is pissed off at Davis in the first place! When sh1t hits the fan he starts finger pointing! People are sick and tired of it! They want leadership, someone to take responsibility and not just act like a damn weasel. Finger pointing to Enron isn't going to work. Sorry.

Wait and see. Ken Lay will make a great bogeyman.

	08-08-2003 19:09									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Wait and see. Ken Lay will make a great bogeyman.

It hasn't helped Davis.

	08-08-2003 19:14									#132
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Voldemort for California Govenor!

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	08-08-2003 19:15									#133
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He's not a resident of California.

	08-08-2003 20:04									#134
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I don't live in California, so I won't have any say on who wins the election. I think Arnold could do as good a job as anyone - isn't this a government "of the people"? Don't write him off just because he's an actor, and don't vote for him just because he's the Terminator.

Davis sounds like a guy who should've been thrown out just for letting the illegal immigrant problem to continue draining California. He refused to sign a lot of 'bills' that would have cut back on all the benefits illegal immigrants could take, because he wanted the Mexican-American votes later on.

	09-08-2003 08:08									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Um, how could they stop the recall movement again? Considering getting a recall vote is simply a matter of collecting a enough signatures (and a really small percentage of the voting population, to boot), this is a pretty pointless remark. Regardless, the fact that Davis is unpopular even with Democrats doesnt' seem to be having any effect on Bustamante's popularity, despite your (unsubstantiated) claims.

They could counter it and ask people to not sign the petition. They could rally around Davis. Even now that the recall is on, I haven't seen any sort of thing even remotely close to a "rally" from the Democrats for their leader. Not even a whimper.

quote: You're saying his work on Prop 49 will somehow help him, I'm saying it won't make a bit of difference to the voters. Unless Arnie can create a real strategy for the budget mess (seen one yet?), then he's just one of several celebrity candidates with no credentials.

It is common knowledge that his work on Prop 49 was a warmup to see if he was ready to run for Governor. EVERYBODY here in California remembers him from his work on there.

	09-08-2003 09:30									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Exactly, he's a Democrat. California is a solidly Democratic state, Ted. Two Democratic Senators, a Democratic house contigent and the Democrats control the state legislature. The Republicans have virtually no political clout in the state, and Democrats are going to come out in force, either to oppose the recall or to ensure the governorship remains Democratic. Either way, this will be a huge plus for Bustamante. He also will get a natural draw on Hispanic voters, which is a pretty significant part of the California electorate. In fact, without winning at least a bare majority of the Hispanic vote, I'd say a Republican doesn't stand a chance of winning a statewide election in California these days.

Until Davis ran, we had 16 years with Rep. Governors. And if Mrs. Fong kid had not screw up the last Senator race, he would have defeated do nothing Petty Girl. One other thing, all of the central valley Demo. run as strong conservative. My home town area is very conservative (Modesto). Hello.