07-08-2003 18:23									#1
	Recreating Greece Got spare money?

Hi All,

I'm trying to think of a way to simulate the historical greek empire. By that I mean Build the Oracle in Delphi, the 5th town on the city list aroung 1200 to 1800 BC, then build the Great Library and the Great Lighthouse in a town called Alexandria both around 300 BC. I'm not sure if the Colossus was part of greece or not, but if so, then that needs to be done too, also around 300 BC.

It all seems like a tall order. I'd like to do it in Emporer, I think Diety would be impossible. I think Monarch might be too easy.

It seems like I need to REX about 5 towns out of Athens, build an veteran army from Sparta and start a fight around 400BC and hope for some GLs. All the bonus AI units might make a GL or two out of Hoplites.

I tried doing this for a bit last night, by going straight for Ceramonial Burial and Mysticism at 100% then going 100% for writing and Literacy. Would it be better to go for pottery first to help the initial expansion?

Has anyone ever tried this? Does anyone have any ideas how to do this? Thanks.

	07-08-2003 18:28									#2
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There was a thread earlier about trying to get all the wonders. Perhaps Aeson was the author.

	07-08-2003 19:53									#3
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Psychotic Wonder Building? Was that Aeson or Nathan?

You could look it up.

Anyway, building the wonders in the "right" towns would be really hard (almost impossible) on Emperor. Hell, even on Monarch. MAYBE regent, but even then...

-Arrian

	08-08-2003 01:42									#4
	Re: Recreating Greece Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by nuther I'm not sure if the Colossus was part of greece or not, but if so, then that needs to be done too, also around 300 BC.

Yes, you definitely need the Colossus in Rhodes too.
Good luck!

	08-08-2003 07:39									#5
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GLs are the only way I could think to do it.

You want a MASSIVE slowmover 'lazy war'. Try pangaea, min water, large, 3B, warm, wet, with one or two less AI civs than allowed.

3-tile spacing for the most part, and stick to REXing and military production. You need Swords ASAP. Oscillate like crazy... cripple the nearby civs, but leave them as training tools. Include distant civs in the osci-cycle, but don;t try to attack them, you just want them to sent units at you.

Sorta sounds like fun.

	08-08-2003 17:29									#6
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I tried again last night on Monarch, no luck yet. Thanks for the help so far. I read some good threads here about seven pillars that makes good sense. A granary in Athens helps expansion. There is enough time to expand and build an army by 500 BC. My last attempt got me a good sword rush going against Rome, they would have fallen. Another attempt saw me attacking Alexandria, which Egypt conveniently built on my border, it wasnt a coast city though.

Greece sure has alot going for it early on. Those Hoplites are practically invulnerable to barbs, which makes them good scouts, but you dont need many in an attack army, so you need assault troops, veteran archers were easy to get until I hooked up iron.

I'm wondering what the best tech order might be and if a 40 turn gambit is worth it. I think a better govt early might help. Like a kingdom (Alexander), then a republic later. So, I am thinking do the religious techs, then go for monarchy, then fill in writing, literacy, map making as I approach the year 1AD. Except I might want wrinting sooner.

I read up on some early Greek history, they fought a lot before the classic hellenistic period occurred.

	08-08-2003 18:06									#7
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Theseus has it: massive, almost neverending war. That means Monarchy, and it means near-constant disruption of the AI. Pillaging become important here, to wreck their production. Leaders, obviously, are crucial. That's the only way I could see this working...

-Arrian

	08-08-2003 19:54									#8
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Hey, forget random world settings! Get a map of Greece itself and actually settle the cities in their appropriate locations! Play over and over again until the RNG has the barbarians from the north attack at precisely the right time, overtaking the right border towns!

	08-08-2003 20:10									#9
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Yeah, I think there are already some medditerranean maps that come with the game. It seems the whole thing boils down to leader fishing. Kind of boring. I'm trying to think of something else to do now.

	08-08-2003 21:32									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Theseus has it: massive, almost neverending war. That means Monarchy, and it means near-constant disruption of the AI. Pillaging become important here, to wreck their production. Leaders, obviously, are crucial. That's the only way I could see this working... -Arrian

Reduce your enemies to 1-2 cities, keep em at war, put elite units at the cardinal points 2 tiles away and wait till they send you archers which are dead meat

	08-08-2003 22:58									#11
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quote: Reduce your enemies to 1-2 cities, keep em at war, put elite units at the cardinal points 2 tiles away and wait till they send you archers which are dead meat

Yeah, pretty much. This is easier said than done, particularly if you are going with the pangea setup (unless it's a tiny pangea, I guess).

-Arrian

	09-08-2003 12:54									#12
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Small historical note:

Rhodes is an island off the mainland of Greece, so that is perfectly in keeping with the Greek Nation (before 500BC). But Alexandria, although part of the Greek empire at the time the Great Library was built, was located in what is now Egypt, well after the height of the pharoahs. Alexandria was built at the mouth of the Nile, and was a good 7 - 14 day merchant ship ride across the Mediterranean to Greece, farther overland.

So if you want to be geographically correct, you'd let the Great Library be built by Cleopatra and keep the Colossus and Oracle.

Infoscott

P.S. The Celts actually sacked the temple at Delphi once, and I miss them from the ancient scenario in Civ2.

	11-08-2003 17:16									#13
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Oh, I see. I thought Alexandria was named after Alexander the Greek and Ptolemy built those two Wonders. I also thought Cleopatra was of Greek descent.