07-08-2003 19:07									#1
	add another group to the list of people who have idiots for p.r. Put an end to popups!

the riaa, we all can admit, is really really really bad at public relations at large, worse even than bush and his foreign policy with "old europe" or clinton and his zipper.
it doesn't matter whether they're right or not if people hate them so much (which seems to be the case) that they ignore them altogether.

well, sco has been going down that path now, but i very much think it's finally fallen off the precpice...

SCO wants $32 for each embedded Linux device

quote: SAN JOSE, Calif. The SCO Group said Tuesday (August 5) it wants $32 for each embedded system using Linux. That request stems from the Lindon, Utah company's claim that Linux versions 2.4 and above contains code that infringes on its Unix software. SCO is currently suing IBM Corp. for breech of contract for allegedly supplying some of that Unix code as part of the open source development process for Linux. After IBM, large businesses using Linux servers are SCO's first target. The company sent letters to about 1,500 large companies it believes could be running such servers. Through October, it will charge them $699 for rights to its Unix code for each single-CPU Linux server they operate, after that charge double. In a less well-publicized part of the company's licensing terms, announced Tuesday (August 5), SCO said it will charge OEMs $32 per unit for each embedded Linux device they own. The $32 fee applies to any embedded system regardless of whether it is a Tivo set-top box which uses embedded Linux or some models of the Sharp Zaurus which also use that kernel. A diverse group of embedded systems that market watchers number in the millions currently use embedded Linux. They range from consumer and handheld systems to networking devices such as routers and firewalls, medical equipment and some military electronic systems use Linux. Venture Development Corp. pegs sales of embedded Linux tools and services at $62.6 million in 2002, a market growing at compound rate of 20.1 percent through 2007. SCO will seek royalties from OEMs though it is not yet pursuing such companies actively, according to a company spokesman. ... If SCO is successful in establishing its claims, "Linux would die," said Haff. But he doesn't expect that will happen."It's hard to say what will happen in a complicated legal case, but from my perspective this is a Hail Mary pass from a company that the market has passed by," said Haff. It its most recent earnings report, SCO reported declines in product and services revenue in the six months ending April 2003 compared to the same period last year. However, those declines were offset by $8 in new licensing revenues. The company also turned a profit of $3.7 million in the recent period compared to a $17.6 million net loss for the year-ago period. The embedded Linux licensing move "is extortion based on fraud. They are out to shake down people for what they can get," said Inder Singh, chairman of the Embedded Linux Consortium and chief executive of embedded Linux and real-time operating system maker LynuxWorks (San Jose). Neither the consortium nor his company has had any communications from SCO on the royalty demand, Singh said. "We will wait until they show us something," that infringes their code, before taking any action on the licensing move, he added.

and

SCO to government Linux users: Pay up

quote: Government agencies must pay up to $699 for each copy of the Linux operating system that they use, the SCO Group Inc., Lindon, Utah, announced Tuesday in a new licensing program. ... In May, IBM Corp., Amonk, N.Y., reported that it has more than 75 government customers using Linux solutions, including the Federal Aviation Administration, the Department of Agriculture and the Department of Energy’s National Energy Research Scientific Computing Center. Between private and public sector customers, IBM has over 6,300 Linux-based implementations. “IBM has remains absolutely committed to providing Linux-based solutions to its customers,” a spokeswoman said. ... According to the new licensing program, Linux use on a server will cost $699 per central processor unit, or CPU, through Oct. 15. Use on desktop computers cost $199 per copy. Pricing for multiple CPU systems and embedded systems are also available. The pricing structure can be found at www.sco.com/scosource/description.html. Stowell said the company has no immediate plans to file suit against government agencies using Linux, but rather plans to speak with individual offices about buying licenses first. The company has no dedicated sales office, but does have representatives dedicated to government sales. SCO reported $64.2 million in revenue for 2002, with a loss of $24.9 million, according to Hoover’s Online of Austin Texas.

honestly, do they seriously expect to make friends this way? oy... anybody could have handled sco's claims far better than sco itself has done... except maybe the riaa, bush, clinton...

even if sco has a valid claim, it's hard to imagine people paying them after the initial round... i doubt that linux will survive if these claims prove true, and in the next cycle, i doubt linux or sco unix will be purchased.

	07-08-2003 19:10									#2
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If they are true and are held up, the simple solution would be to remove the code in question and redo it themselves rather than copying it line by line.

	07-08-2003 19:14									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: If they are true and are held up, the simple solution would be to remove the code in question and redo it themselves rather than copying it line by line.

sco doesn't want that to happen until after they get paid. which is understandable, but man, they're really not going to gain repeat customers this way. sco seems to be reviled now in it circles...

	07-08-2003 19:16									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just in:

http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-5060965.html?tag=fd_top

quote: Big Blue files counterclaims against SCO By Stephen Shankland Staff Writer, CNET News.com August 7, 2003, 6:21 AM PT IBM on Thursday filed counterclaims against the SCO Group in the continuing legal battle over the Linux operating system. An IBM spokesman said on Thursday that the company made the filing late Wednesday. Further details were not immediately available, and SCO representatives could not immediately be reached for comment. SCO has sued IBM for $3 billion, alleging that Big Blue moved proprietary Unix code into Linux and breached the terms of its Unix license with SCO. Separately from the IBM suit, SCO has said that Unix code was copied directly into Linux and seeks payments of as much as $1,399 per computer from Linux users. The bold initial lawsuit, followed by the equally bold threat that Linux users should pay or face potential legal action, has sent shock waves through the computing industry. On Monday, the top Linux seller, Red Hat, filed a separate lawsuit seeking a legal judgment about whether Linux violates SCO's Unix copyrights. More details to follow.

	07-08-2003 19:30									#5
	Tired of ads?

These guys are practically asking for the destruction of their company, trying to pick a fight against one of the largest companies in the world. Does it really believe it can outlast IBM in the courts?

	07-08-2003 19:35									#6
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imho, i think the charges made by sco are bunk, and that this is a last gasp in order for them to squeeze enough money out of people to survive.

	07-08-2003 19:36									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

SCO themselves released a version of Linux with the code in question (back when it was named Caldera), so I doubt this would survive in court...

	08-08-2003 08:25									#8
	SCO shoots its own foot Got spare money?

quote: SCO has claimed that IBM illegally threw Unix code into versions of Linux with the 2.4 kernel and above, and launched a $3 billion lawsuit to prove its point. IBM has fired back against SCO today with its own lawsuit, claiming that SCO cannot make claims to Linux code, since it sold its own version of Linux under the GPL. Big Blue's lawyers might be pleased to find SCO is still in the Linux distribution business to this day.

link

	08-08-2003 08:37									#9
	Re: SCO shoots its own foot Increase Your PM Length

Well, SCO deserves whats coming to them...

	08-08-2003 11:44									#10
	SCO distributes Linux under GPL Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

own goal

They should release a superior product that people will pay for instead of trying to hinder and reap unearned enrichments from other's labors…

	08-08-2003 14:46									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Copyrighters are going absolutely crazy. They want people pay for initially free stuff. Nonsence.

	08-08-2003 16:36									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It's not just that they've got idiots for PR, they've got idiots for lawyers, too. They're running a blatant pump-and-dump stock scam, and I can't wait for the SEC to get all over them.

(Want proof? Check Yahoo financial for the insider trading lists of stock sells...)

--"sco doesn't want that to happen until after they get paid. which is understandable, "

Actually, no it isn't. For starters, they've never filed any legal claims again Linux, so there's no court case to possibly be threatened. They just spread FUD in the media and go after Linux users (which is doubly stupid and also illegal; it's like you claiming that Wal-Mart infringed on your patent so all their customers owe you money). Secondly, the code base is out there. If there is real infringement, it won't disappear just because it's not in the next version of the kernel. The infringement will still have happened (and SCO and the lawyers will have copies to show such), and they'd still get the court case. This is just BS from them that most of the news stories haven't picked up on. There's a lot of BS is SCO stories, so it's no surprise that some of it slips by.

--"These guys are practically asking for the destruction of their company"

They don't care. Caldera got purchased by another company whose sole business is making money out of suing other companies. This was a bit of a long shot from the start, but hey, they're getting rich on their stock (which has gone up something like ten fold over this crap).

--"SCO themselves released a version of Linux with the code in question (back when it was named Caldera),"

What's more amusing is they kept on releasing it after they started making their claims of infringement.

Unfortunately for them, their current plan (licensing the kernel) puts them in violation of the copyright of everyone else who worked on Linux, so they've opened themselves up to a huge class-action countersuit.

Wraith
"99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name."
-- Steven Wright

	08-08-2003 17:58									#13
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@sco...

still distributing linux after trying so hard to fud it out of existence?

man, are these guys expecting to survive after this flap?

	08-08-2003 22:18									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hehe... check out this link:

http://radio.weblogs.com/0120124/

IBM is going to nuke SCO out of court.

Wraith
"Only Lawyers and mental defectives are automatically
exempt for jury duty."
-- George Bernard Shaw.

	09-08-2003 10:24									#15
	Tired of ads?

As one might expect, SCO has been playing with fire, and it is now burning their collective arse.

	09-08-2003 21:27									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

this is when this smiley comes into play:

how many other companies have gone up against big blue's patent division, only to find them utterly crushed? far too many.

good job, SCO. i laud your brilliant tactics.

	09-08-2003 22:54									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

i've been reading more on that site...

big blue may be slow to do something new, but jeebus, it's 'cause it's a battleship. now that the big guns are trained on sco...

	09-08-2003 23:17									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This is why I hate capitalism.

	13-08-2003 05:12									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

here's another reason to hate sco's brand of capitalism.

SCO execs unloading shares

quote: SCO Group executives have sold about 119,000 shares of their company since it filed a lawsuit against IBM in March and the stock price increased more than fourfold. ... Chief Financial Officer Robert Bench began the $1.2 million in executive share sales four days after Lindon -based SCO filed its lawsuit against Armonk, N.Y.-based IBM on March 6. Before Bench's sale, SCO insiders had not sold shares in more than a year, according to the Washington Service, a firm that tracks insider transactions. "Insider sales picking up is a negative sign," said Richard Campagna, who helps manage $750 million as director of research for Cleveland-based Shaker Investments. Shaker, which owns no shares of SCO, has stakes in computer-related companies including Flextronics International. SCO spokesman Blake Stowell declined to comment on the share sales. The company will comment on the sales when it announces fiscal third-quarter results Thursday, he said. The company has a market value of about $120 million and had 13.7 million shares outstanding at the end of April. ...Bench has sold 17,151 shares in three separate sales since March 10, reducing his holdings to 228,043 shares, according to the Washington Service and regulatory filings. Vice President Michael Wilson sold his entire stake of 12,000 shares between July 14 and July 18, the Washington Service said. Some investors have bet that SCO may generate royalty sales from its dispute with IBM. Microsoft Corp., the world's largest software company, bought a license from SCO in May. Another Fortune 500 company purchased an SCO license, SCO said Monday. It didn't identify the purchaser. ... At closing Monday, shares of SCO were down $1.46, or 14 percent, to $9.29, on the Nasdaq Market. IBM rose 14 cents, to $81.02, in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. Other investors are betting against SCO. The amount of short interest in the stock rose more than tenfold between May and July, according to Bloomberg data. Investors sell a stock short to profit on any decline in the price. SCO, which changed its name from Caldera International in May, has had one profitable quarter since it sold shares to the public in 2000. SCO consumed $14 million in cash in the fiscal year ended in October and had about $10 million in cash at the end of April. The company has no borrowings.

	13-08-2003 05:40									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

let's add the esa (not the space agency) to it.

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:37:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Finnie
To: gentoo-mirrors@gentoo.org
Subject: [gentoo-mirrors] Notice of Claimed Infringement (fwd)
Greetings,
Redundant Networks ([url]www.redundant.com / oss.redundant.com) currently is in
the official rsync pool, and we are waiting on becoming an official dist
mirror. Nonetheless, I currently have a copy of the gentoo distribution
available via http and ftp. Earlier today we received this by way of AT&T
(since our gentoo mirror is on an IP block allocated from them).
The short of it is, their DMCAbot(TM) found
/distfiles/INFMapPacks123FULL-MAN.zip, picked out the words "Pac" and
"Man", and is now threatening us under the DMCA for distributing a pirated
version of Pacman. While I'm not too worried about this (in fact, I'm
rather amused), I'm just wondering if any other dist mirrors have received
any threats similar to this.
RF[/url]

	13-08-2003 08:22									#21
	Got spare money?

At first glance, SCO seems to be on a suicide course and making no sense whatsover with their lawsuits.

At second glance, however, Microsoft is behind the scenes and executing a brilliant cold-war type proxy manuever against Linux.

Linux's days are seriously numbered.

You guys are not going to BELIEVE the move Microsoft is going to pull off, I mean it is absolutley brilliant. It will be like seeing the Blitzkrieg for the very first time.

	13-08-2003 16:37									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

--"At second glance, however, Microsoft is behind the scenes and executing a brilliant cold-war type proxy manuever against Linux."

Yeah, I've seen this sort of speculation. Microsoft certainly is supporting it (that's why they bought the license from SCO; give 'em a bit more funds to go after their lawsuit with), but I think you're overstating things. While it certainly isn't below Microsoft to pull off a massive (and expensive) smear campaign like this, I don't think this is going to hurt Linux at all in the long run. Especially not with IBM joining the fight. This is where MS has to be careful. Look at some of the charges IBM put in their suit against SCO. Microsoft's usual FUD campaigining is vulnerable to several of them.

Wraith
"What is wrong with these people? This place is just begging to be destroyed!"
- Zim ("Invader Zim")

	13-08-2003 16:57									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

what, pray tell, is microsoft's brilliant maneuver here? and what makes you think that they're going to pull something else on top of this?

i don't see any evidence for that.

now, as for the speculation that ms gave money to --ahem-- reward sco, i can see that. but with sco facing off against heavies like ibm and middleweights like novell, sun, and others, i highly doubt that microsoft would want to be dragged into it any further than they already are.

linux's days are numbered just as windows's days are numbered.

	13-08-2003 20:28									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker You guys are not going to BELIEVE the move Microsoft is going to pull off, I mean it is absolutley brilliant.

About as brilliant as the videotape they presented as evidence in the antitrust case.

	14-08-2003 10:58									#25
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The smear campaign is only a sacrifcial lamb sent ahead until the main attack comes. SCO is taking the fall but the lawsuit is only a side circus distraction. The real battle is going to come from Microsoft itself.

I am telling you when they drop this sh1t it is going to be like Hiroshima. Like when they busted up Netscape and canned them for good.

I'm just going to sit on this info and let it unfold.

Brilliant. Freaking brilliant.

I don't even think Asher knows about it.

	14-08-2003 11:05									#26
	Got spare money?

I know alot of you guys are fans of IBM just because they have helped out Linux.

But after having seriously working with IBM and their products, I can say without a doubt, this is NOT a good thing.

When comparing the usablity between MS and IBM, IBM has been one of the most frustrating vendors I have EVER worked with.

You think .DLL hell is bad?

IBM will simply rename it .TLL Hell and not tell you where it is, write a 1500 page documentation manual that doesn't say sh1t, and then tell you to apply a Fixpack when the sh1t doesn't work.

Trust me IBM is NOBODY'S friend.

	14-08-2003 12:40									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker The real battle is going to come from Microsoft itself.

What else is new? Not that we are surprised or anything.

	14-08-2003 16:42									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

--"IBM will simply rename it .TLL Hell and not tell you where it is, write a 1500 page documentation manual that doesn't say sh1t, and then tell you to apply a Fixpack when the sh1t doesn't work."

In other words... exactly like DLL hell only with different names?

I'm not counting on IBM's friendship. I'm counting on them to defend their line of business, which now includes a lot of linux.

It's also nice to, for once, have the opportunity to see a small company get smeared by a huge one and completely deserve it.

As for this mysterious Microsoft thing, well, I'll believe it when I see it.

Wraith
No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up

	16-08-2003 01:31									#29
	Remove this text

no, i don't like ibm because of the linux thing.

i like ibm because of deep blue. ^^; this linux thing has less to do with ibm for me than sco. i just don't understand how sco could be so bad with its pr. i mean, really, if their claims had any substance, they couldn't be doing more harm to their side of things even if they tried.

stupid stupid stupid people making themselves look bad. they're as bad as the riaa in public relations, and that's really depressing.

it's no wonder our economy's in the tank and that nobody likes us, not when we have idiots like that being the "captains of industry".

	16-08-2003 22:54									#30
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Really this isn't about SCO's pr. It's a proxy attack from Microsoft. In the worst case, it buys them more time. In the best case, it makes Linux users pay for their licenses.


The fallout from this thing is way more serious than expected.

According to Sun Microsystems President:


1) Companies that are evaluating Linux are now holding off because they are afraid of the possible legal liability that comes with it.

2) Sun is going to offer another version of Linux in addition to Red Hat. This is so customers can have a version of Linux that frees them of liability. (Sun paid SCO $100 million about 10 years ago to have the rights to UNIX).