Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Insane Nuclear Maniac threatens world peace.
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:26
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Insane Nuclear Maniac threatens world peace. Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, it's your friend and mine - the world's undisputed undefeated threat to world peace - the US government.

quote:
A two-day conference to plan the future of the American nuclear arsenal, including the development of so-called mini-nukes, is being held this week at StratCom, the headquarters of US Strategic Command in Nebraska.

The Bush administration appears determined to build a new generation of small nuclear weapons, especially "earth penetrators", designed to attack nuclear, chemical or biological materials buried deep underground.

A new form of warfare is coming. It is the extension into the nuclear field of the highly accurate conventional bombs and missiles already in use.

Some 150 top scientists and senior officials will meet at the Offutt Air Force Base and the meeting will be in private. According to an agenda leaked earlier this year by an anti-nuclear group, one of their panels will tackle the issue of mini-nukes.

In the jargon preferred by those in this business, they are called "small build" weapons - weapons of about one kiloton, 1,000 tonnes of explosive.

According to the leaked agenda, the "Future Arsenal" panel will examine "requirements for low-yield weapons, EPW's, enhanced radiation weapons, [and] agent defeat weapons."

A new form of warfare is coming - the extension into the nuclear field of the highly accurate conventional bombs and missiles already in use

Decoded, this means nuclear devices with that produce small amounts of radiation, earth-penetrating weapons to attack underground bunkers, larger devices with greater radiation effects and weapons to destroy chemical and biological agents.

The meeting, called the "Stockpile Stewardship Conference", grew from a re-assessment of US nuclear strategy in the post-Cold War era.

This "Nuclear Posture Review" was sent by the Pentagon to Congress in December 2001.

More flexible

It basically said that there had to be a switch away from the old nuclear deterrent - using long-range bombers, missiles and submarines - to a more flexible approach based more on defences such as the anti-missile system now being developed and small devices yet to be made.


The major weapons systems have to be reduced anyway under a treaty with Russia, cutting deployed nuclear warheads to between 1,700 and 2,200 by the year 2012.

At the time of the review, the US Assistant Secretary for International Security Policy, J D Crouch, said: "Today we have a very different situation (from the Cold War). We have a situation where the United States may face multiple potential opponents, but we're not sure who they might be. There are multiple sources or potential sources of conflict."

Multiple sources of conflict are leading to multiple sources of weapons.

'Earth penetrator'

The review identified the earth penetrator as one element of the new arsenal:

The US and Russia have agreed on arms limitations

"With a more effective earth penetrator, many buried targets could be attacked using a weapon with a much lower yield than would be required with a surface based weapon.

"This power yield would achieve the same damage while producing less fallout (by a factor of ten to twenty).

"For defeat of very deep or larger underground facilities, penetrating weapons with large yields would be needed to collapse the facility," it said.

A report from the House of Representatives subcommittee on national security said in February 2003: "The president should have options - the options of conventional forces, of precision conventional weapons and of nuclear weapons that are capable of holding all targets at risk."

Opposition

There has been an anti-nuclear demonstration at StratCom this week by the Los Angeles Study group, the organisation which leaked the agenda.

And numerous anti-nuclear pressure groups have criticised the mini-nuke plan.

In Britain, Ben Miller, a spokesman the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, told BBC News Online: "It is shocking, disgusting and disgraceful that US defence department officials are meeting in the very week of the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in which over 110,000 people died.

In the United States, Robert Musil, executive director of Physicians for Social Responsibility, said: "Why in the world would we move towards manufacturing small nuclear weapons and then expect that no one will ever try to steal, beg or borrow one and use it against us?"

Other panels at this week's conference will consider the issue of how to maintain the US nuclear stockpile in working order without being able to carry out live tests.

The US has observed a moratorium on testing since 1992 and is developing a computer-based simulation programme instead.

It is not known however if these computer tests will do the job.

So there will be an examination at the meeting as to whether live testing will be recommended again.

A Pentagon spokesman, Major Michael Shavers, said: "They're going to take a look at the status of the nation's nuclear stockpile, particularly with an eye towards the Moscow Treaty that says we've got to get our stockpile numbers down and how we do that in a manner that still allows us to maintain a credible nuclear deterrent."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3126141.stm

What else can a reasonable person say, other than that anyone who thinks this is a good idea is a certifiable lunatic.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:29 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

Good.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:31
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition


The United States is at the top of my list of "Countries that can be trusted with nuclear weapons". I see no problem with expanding our arsenal as much as possible.

edit: by "expanding" I mean diversifying strategies and weapons, not necessarily having tens of thousands of bombs.

panag is offline panag
Emperor
MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:30
Post  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:31 Visit panag's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

hi ,

hey agathon , did this not get posted allready in an other thread yesterday , .....

have a nice day

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:33
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Good.


You know I've long suspected you were a sick SOB, now I'm sure.

Of course you do realize that the existence of such munitions makes the use of nuclear weapons more likely.

Need I remind you of what this means? The weapons under development will be about 1/3 the power of the one that did this:

Attachment: hiroshima.jpg
This has been downloaded 143 time(s).

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:33
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

1) Copycat thread.
2) This has been public knowledge since at least Feb. Why are you just now reacting to it?
3) Here's a question I've asked everytime this topic has come up and have yet to recieve an answer to. "How will these new nukes differ from the B61-11?"

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:34
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote:
Originally posted by Sava

The United States is at the top of my list of "Countries that can be trusted with nuclear weapons".


Oh really? Well presumably the nation at the bottom of the list would be the only worthless piece of crap that actually used them.

Gee... what country would be dumb enough to do that?

I wonder....

Attachment: hiroshima-1.jpg
This has been downloaded 138 time(s).

The Andy-Man is offline The Andy-Man
Prince
Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

nukes are useless, against an enemy armyu wou would need to use so many to do any real damage to his front line (As there is never a mass build up of troops within a 5miles radiace), which would make the battlefield an uninhabitable mess, ie on the deffensive you've wasted your own contry, on the offensive you've wasted the country you will attack.

against big cities? lethal, but politically disatrous, and no military benefit aside from tkaing out manpower and indutrial capacity, but for most nations the political fall out wouldn't be worth it.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Cry me a river Agathon... Nuclear deterence works. And when all out war happens, using nuclear weapons to bring a quick end to such a war is a good thing. But perhaps you wish millions of people on both sides should die in massive ground invasions rather than one or two nukes killing a few hundred thousand.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:37
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc

3) Here's a question I've asked everytime this topic has come up and have yet to recieve an answer to. "How will these new nukes differ from the B61-11?"


Because they are nuclear weapons...

There's a line that most people can see between the use of conventional and the use of nuclear weapons. It's a line worth preserving.

****ing nuclear cowboys.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:39
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Because they are nuclear weapons...
So is the weapon I asked about. What's your point?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:39
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Maybe in your fantasy world, everyone will play nice and hold hands and sing "KumBaYa", Agathon... but in the real world, there are evil dictators, murderous regimes, and foreign governments who would like nothing more than to march into Washington and burn America to the ground. And like it or not, the United States protects your Canadian ass.

Answer me this, how many nukes have been used in combat since 1945? Zero? Okay, so STFU!

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:39
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Cry me a river Agathon... Nuclear deterence works. And when all out war happens, using nuclear weapons to bring a quick end to such a war is a good thing. But perhaps you wish millions of people on both sides should die in massive ground invasions rather than one or two nukes killing a few hundred thousand.


Read the article....

The point isn't about strategic deterrence. That works. However, these are not weapons of deterrence, they are designed for specific military purposes (the destruction of bunkers and the like).

There are already enough nukes in the US to deter any sane person. These things are designed to be used.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:43
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Maybe in your fantasy world, everyone will play nice and hold hands and sing "KumBaYa", Agathon... but in the real world, there are evil dictators, murderous regimes, and foreign governments who would like nothing more than to march into Washington and burn America to the ground. And like it or not, the United States protects your Canadian ass.


Get real...

This has nothing to do with deterrence. These are weapons designed to be used in pre-emptive strikes.

Frankly, my Canadian ass wishes you'd all just piss off. Protect us from who, exactly?? Everybody likes us.

No wonder people want to burn your country to the ground.

quote:
Answer me this, how many nukes have been used in combat since 1945? Zero? Okay, so STFU!


Oh yeah.... "well your honour, I haven't committed any massacres since 1945, that must mean I'm a great guy."

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:44
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

So did Dubya commit massacres in 1945?

By the way, what do you think the Japanese would have done to you if you lived in Nanking?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:44
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
So is the weapon I asked about. What's your point?


You people are a blight on civilization.

I'm with the terrorists... frankly they're less good at killing people.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
So did Dubya commit massacres in 1945?


Eh, who mentioned him? I doubt he understands what's going on anyway.

quote:
By the way, what do you think the Japanese would have done to you if you lived in Nanking?


OK - so the correct and decent response to the wanton killing of innocent civilians is to kill even more of them.

That's some sick way of looking at the world.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
I'm with the terrorists...
Why don't you move to Afghanistan so you can conspire to kill more innocent people?

If these mini-nukes can be effective at killing chickenshit terrorists hiding in caves with minimal collateral damage, then I'm all for it. There's nothing wrong with researching such a possibility. Why don't you worry about LEGITIMATE issues that you can attack Bush on?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:47
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote:
OK - so the correct and decent response to the wanton killing of innocent civilians is to kill even more of them.
Let's drop you in Japan circa 1944 and see how they treat you. I doubt you consider them so "innocent".

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:48
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Gee whiz... will all the people in favour of nuclear proliferation please stand up and be escorted to the funny farm...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:48
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
You people are a blight on civilization.
If you don't know what you're talking about, there is no reason to get pissy about it.
quote:
I'm with the terrorists.
I never would have guessed.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Gee whiz... will all the people in favour of nuclear proliferation please stand up and be escorted to the funny farm...
And all the people interested in helping Islamic terrorists, please stand up for transport to Gitmo.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Why don't you move to Afghanistan so you can conspire to kill more innocent people?

If these mini-nukes can be effective at killing chickenshit terrorists hiding in caves with minimal collateral damage, then I'm all for it. There's nothing wrong with researching such a possibility. Why don't you worry about LEGITIMATE issues that you can attack Bush on?


Great - so now other countries will think - hey the US uses these little nukes - maybe we can use them too.

As for the Japan thing. I don't care how bad they were, that is no excuse for our side to commit war crimes.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

Donate to the Red Cross

Sep 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

quote:
The Bush administration appears determined to build a new generation of small nuclear weapons, especially "earth penetrators", designed to attack nuclear, chemical or biological materials buried deep underground.

I'm not any explosives expert, but wouldn't exploding them just spread them around? Especially combined with the regular fallout that nukes produce?

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:50 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

My words are backed with NUCULAR WEAPONS!

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
If you don't know what you're talking about, there is no reason to get pissy about it.


Well, when confronted with nuke loving idiots, what else is one supposed to do.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
And all the people interested in helping Islamic terrorists, please stand up for transport to Gitmo.


Yes, another fine innovation of the Barbarian empire....

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=93978

Now that I've linked to the original thread on this topic, the mods should do their duty and kill the copycat spam thread.

The Andy-Man is offline The Andy-Man
Prince
Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:30
  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:53
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

bleh, i hope the russkies DID build the doomsday machein, and Dmitri DID forget to tell us about it, and that some halfwit american drops the bomb and we all go together.

panag is offline panag
Emperor
MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:30
Exclamation  Old Post 08-08-2003 03:53 Visit panag's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

hi ,

agathon , the same story was put up in this thread >>> http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...highlight=nukes

have a nice day

 
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30.
Apolyton Time is 00:30.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0581 seconds (93.04% PHP - 6.96% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net