09-08-2003 11:35									#1
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Conan The Scenario, version 0.00001

It's got snakes, ape-men, sorcerors, and bad neighbors!

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Peaster/conan.zip

This is the first version of my first scenario. I've worked on it several months, but frankly it's only about 90 per cent done. It seems fun to me for up to 50-100 turns, but it needs some work on the endgame. I'd appreciate any ideas, or comments, good or bad.

Play at Emperor level. For some reason, starting at other levels changes the initial production of certain key cities etc. MGE should be fine. Probably FW too (?).

***************************************

Secondly, I think I have fixed FavFly's ROTK scenario so that Frodo doesn't disappear on MGE users. FavFly says his version works reliably on FW but not MGE. Anybody want to try this out on MGE (or FW) ?

	09-08-2003 11:54									#2
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I cant download it, try sticking it in as an attachment.

	09-08-2003 16:57									#3
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Wow!
Conan, my favorite chatacter!
Count me in!

And yes, try having it as an attachment, the link is broken.

	09-08-2003 19:25									#4
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OK. This should do it, conan.zip should be attached.

	09-08-2003 19:42									#5
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Hmmm...

I clicked browse, found the file on my computer, and clicked "submit reply". But the file doesn't seem to be attached to the previous post. Trying same thing again...

Attachment: conan.zip
This has been downloaded 24 time(s).

	11-08-2003 09:37									#6
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Hope you're enjoying the scenario. Anyone found the way into Kordava?

Please post suggestions here or click on "mail".

	11-08-2003 10:02									#7
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we talking Conan O'Brien or Conan the Barbarian/Conquerer?

	12-08-2003 18:14									#8
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Neither, Art. Yet. Is anyone playtesting??

Any suggestions for military units? I took some names and pix from Roman era scenarios, but would prefer more names from R.E.Howard and some wilder graphics.

	12-08-2003 18:34									#9
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Excellent idean, Peaster!

I have been thinking about a Conan scen for quite a time!

I'll test yours as soon as I have some spare time (which sadly might not be really soon )

	14-08-2003 10:30									#10
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I don't play Civ2 much these days, but ok.

Good unit graphics. Snakes look cool and apemen look quite good. Conan himself looks like he had a few estrogen ejections -- those are big pecs -- by whatever.

Obvious effort went into the map. The terrain feels natural.

Certainly better than my first efforts way back when

BTW, this is an MGE scenario. I don't remember if that's mentioned anywhere.

I am sure Peaster would appreciate a few comments from someone with the energy to play a few turns.

A lot of thought seems to have been put into flavour-building events.

	14-08-2003 11:31									#11
	Some comments . . . Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm a Robert E. Howard reader from my childhood, and I like the idea of an Hyborian Age scenario. Your scenario seems to be loosely based on the Hyborian Age.

1. No sound file. Any scenario is improved by a soundtrack. There are plenty of great files laying around that would work well with this scenario.

2. The pictish units should be represented by "painted savages" rather than conventional warrior-type graphics. In some of the Conan stories that Howard "cannibalized" to create historical stories, the Hyborian Age picts appeared as native Americans. They wore feathers, used stone and copper tools, lived within a tribal organization, and resided in remote wilderness, mostly swamp and forest.

3. No Turan. Or Hyrkania.

4. Both Koth and, more importantly, Shem should be located north of Stygia. Where are the nations of Ophir? Corinthia? Khoraja? Brythunia? Hyperborea? Khauran?

5. Poitain was known for its mounted knights. None appear at start.

6. Zamora was surrounded by mountains, with deserts lying to the east (where Turan is).

7. Argos had a coast, but none of my Hyborian Age maps display it as it appears in your map.

8. Where are the various pirates, buccaneers, and corsairs that sailed these oceans?

9. No black kingdoms south of Stygia.

10. Where are the northern barbarians? Aesgardians and Vanir? Conan himself was a Cimmerian.

11. IMO, not enough cities.

12. No Gunderland, the province of Aquilonia where its elite pikemen came from. The Aquilonian military under King Conan I was composed chiefly of 3 main arms. The first were the mounted Bossonian archers. The second were the pikemen of Gunderland, and the third was the Poitain knights. No army in Hyboria ever stood (unaided by sorcery, lol) against this potent combination.

13. Stygia was very clearly modeled on ancient Egypt. There were even pyramids and a city named Luxor.

14. Trade? The Hyborian seas were sailed by traders of all kinds from various nations. Caravans frequented the routes between the nations.

14. Generally, the two associated stories titled, The Hyborian Age provide a superb quasi-historical timeline and a clear diplomatic/political setup for a Conan scenario. I don't see that timeline here at all, but then the scenario appears to be more of a quest type than a clash-of-empires or empire-building scenario.

	14-08-2003 11:41									#12
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I haven't really played more than a couple of turns, but I can offer the following comments/suggestions.

It's been years (decades, really ) since I read the Conan books, but this looks like the effort of someone who's a serious fan. It has the book's feel of strangeness and danger, with a number of good new units. As Leo said, the events add a lot to the atmosphere and story line.

My suggestions at this stage are mainly about improving the atmosphere further. A little more work/searching to replace some of the remaining stock Civ2 units would be helpful. There really are lots out there. Ditto with the terrain. More exotic terrain would significantly enhance the atmosphere.

Finally, try adding sounds, including those triggered by events. They'll add a lot to any fantasy scenario. If you can find one of the early versions of Harlan Thompson's "Lord of the Rings", you'll know what I'm talking about. You might also wish to check out my scenario "Prince of Darkness" available on the Spanish Civ site. Feel free to use anything there.

I think it's a great first effort, and hope you produce version 2.0 based on suggestions from this forum.

	14-08-2003 19:17									#13
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Thanks!!! Great! I will adopt these ideas if I can. The changes to units, unit graphics, and terrain should be pretty easy. I don't know anything about sound yet.

I agree about the naval units, and will try it, though they might be a fairly small part of the gameplay. I'd like some AI ships to protect a coastline, but they seem to just wander off or cluster together.

It would be nice to include more (bigger) kingdoms such as Turan and Hyrkania, but I've got seven already, chosen mostly by stories. I could place Turanian units in Zamora. And maybe the Picts could be replaced by barbarians.

Your suggestions are very encouraging. Much appreciated! Version 2.0 comes!

	14-08-2003 21:03									#14
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I'm not much of a Conan fan, but this sounds interesting. Any chance of a FW scenario coming out? I don't have MGE.

	14-08-2003 22:44									#15
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In The Hyborian Age, Howard provided a detailed description of Conan's world. The key political entities were Aquilonia, Nemedia, Koth, Stygia, and Turan. These should (IMO) be the principal civs. The Picts were a special case, and would "acquire" some special techs that turn them into armored warriors some time late in the scenario. The northern Barbarians could be barbarians, working especially well, perhaps with a larger and more detailed map. Turan became a very powerful force, eventually invading the Hyborian lands, plundering and devastating. Only the Aquilonian military was able to check its advance. There should be a LOT more desert in a Hyborian map--Conan was always appearing or traveling through deserts. There were also Iranistan, Vendhya, and Khitai, but those realms were clearly peripheral to the main Hyborian stage of activity. Argos was (more or less) a satellite of Koth (as were Khoraja and Khauran). Corinthia and Brythunia could be bloc-ed with Nemedia. Shem could also be a barbarian country, primarily grassland, and dotted with the Shemitish city states, of which there were many, a good number named in various stories. For the sake of coherence, I'd also recommend sticking with the original books written by Howard himself, or the two main pastiche' writers, Carter and DeCamp. Nyberg's novel is ok, but the rest are second rate (at best), and diverge from the original ideas of Howard.

When it comes right down to it, one can look closely at the Hyborian age races and countries and easily discern the historical models. Aquilonia and the other Hyborian countries represent the European medieval world. Turan and the Hyrkanians are the Huns, Tartars, Mongols, and Turks. Zingara has a distinct Spanish feel, while Zamora has the most "mythical" aspect with its worship of spiders, forgotten "gods," and thieves & wizards, etc. Shem is how Howard perceived the Arabo-Persian world of the ancient middle east. Stygia is Egypt. The northern barbarians of Nordheim, Hyperborea, and Cimmeria seem to be a cross between the Vikings and the volkerwanderung barbarians of the 4 and 5th centuries. The close of the Hyborian age itself is marked by the descent of these very powerful barbarians from the north into the war-torn Hyborian lands. This knowledge might be helpful when selecting new graphics to use.

I've got a pretty good map of the Hyborian Age. It's presently in a file that is too big ( ) to upload here. If you'd like to take a look at it, I'll be happy to send it to you. My email is around here somewhere, let me know and I'll fire it your way.

	15-08-2003 03:15									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Elok I'm not much of a Conan fan, but this sounds interesting. Any chance of a FW scenario coming out? I don't have MGE.

Elok,

Did you try to run it? I thought MGE and FW were fairly compatible, but I'm pretty new to all this.

Exile,

I just realized that "The Hyborian Age" is included at the end of "Red Nails" but I haven't read it recently. Will do so. I have relied mainly on a few paperbacks (with maps) and the Darlange web site. I wasn't sure whether people cared much about geo-political accuracy in a fantasy scenario like this, but you have convinced me to do more homework. The scenario does already have Gunderland (as a city) and Luxor, btw.

I am undecided about adding Turan and Koth because of the work involved at this point. And because I imagine a scenario in which quests slightly outweigh conquests.

Argos could be replaced by Koth, but I'd prefer to include one somewhat-friendly naval power for gameplay reasons, and Koth has no coastline. Likewise, Turan dominated Zamora, so Zamora could be replaced by Turan. But I think the Yimsha area (from "People of the Black Circle") will be a high point wrt gameplay and it just doesn' t seem Turanian to me. So, I'm still thinking.

If it's no trouble, please send me your map. Maybe if I keep mine as is, I could still make a second scenario, which is more conquest-oriented and includes all the major players.

Thanks again for the ideas!!

	15-08-2003 03:28									#17
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No, FW flips out if it tries to run MGE scenarios, I've tried. It whines at you that the version number of the scenario is higher than Civ2's, and refuses to play it. I guess I should download the program that converts MGE scens one of these days. I have no idea where to find it though.

	15-08-2003 04:11									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Elok No, FW flips out if it tries to run MGE scenarios, I've tried. It whines at you that the version number of the scenario is higher than Civ2's, and refuses to play it. I guess I should download the program that converts MGE scens one of these days. I have no idea where to find it though.

here:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2cedric.shtml
download the 5 MGE zip's

	15-08-2003 05:14									#19
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Er, I meant a prog to modify MGE scenarios so they work for FW. I can't use that upgrade patch because
A. I lost my Civ2 CD a loooong time ago, so I need to be able to play without it, and
B. The computer I play Civ2 on isn't connected to the internet, and apparently it's not equipped to connect to a zip drive. Come to think of it, the CD-ROM drive is broken too-my PC is pretty gimpy. Anyway, I'm limited to downloading files 1.44 MB in size or smaller, saving them to disk, then transferring them to my own comp.
So basically what I need is a scenario converter, not a civ upgrader. I thought there was a program like that out there somewhere.
Thanks anyway.

	15-08-2003 05:54									#20
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Elok Er, I meant a prog to modify MGE scenarios so they work for FW. I can't use that upgrade patch because A. I lost my Civ2 CD a loooong time ago, so I need to be able to play without it, and B. The computer I play Civ2 on isn't connected to the internet, and apparently it's not equipped to connect to a zip drive. Come to think of it, the CD-ROM drive is broken too-my PC is pretty gimpy. Anyway, I'm limited to downloading files 1.44 MB in size or smaller, saving them to disk, then transferring them to my own comp. So basically what I need is a scenario converter, not a civ upgrader. I thought there was a program like that out there somewhere. Thanks anyway.

aha I see.. well I've never heard of such a converter, only from ToT to MGE.

	15-08-2003 12:50									#21
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If you'll send your email in a PM, I'll send the map along.

	16-08-2003 21:16									#22
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I lost my Civ2 CD a loooong time ago, so I need to be able to play without it, and

A CiC, FW, or ToT CD would also work IIRC.

	19-08-2003 02:03									#23
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First of all: your scen definitely has that "one more turn" syndrom we all grew to love in Civ II!

I find something disturbing: all the ships can carry AIR units, but not others! Is that on purpose? (as nobody reported it, I thought it might be deliberate...)

It is really penalizing not being able to use the ships to "bypass" some areas...

	19-08-2003 21:59									#24
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Cyrion,

Thanks for both comments! I want the scenario to feel like normal civ2, with some important quests mixed in. Harlan Thompson's LOTR scenario manages that very well (with just one major quest). I'm finding other good examples all the time.

The ship problem is a mistake of some sort, which I didn't know about, and will fix. Maybe when I added the ability to carry air units, that cancelled the ability to carry land ones (?). The naval units should be important by the end of the scenario, and they definitely need more work !

	19-08-2003 22:18									#25
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Some veterans may need to correct me here, but I was under the impression that land carries got top priority, i.e. if a ship could carry three ground troops and air units, the ground troops could move with it but the air units could only refuel over it; the ship would move on without them.

	19-08-2003 22:25									#26
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If you take a look at the rules.txt file, you'll see that NO ship has the n°4 role: sea transport, which s funny has all ships have a size for their "hold" defined (actually, count Trocero does too, but I guess THAT is an error )! I think that's what need to be changed to allow them to do it!

Are all ships supposed to carry units? (just so that I can modify my rules manually and continue my testing)

	19-08-2003 23:35									#27
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Yes, all are supposed to be able to carry both land and air units. If that's not possible, they should be able to carry land ones [about 3 each].

I wasn't expecting players to use ships much until the end because of 1) lack of tech, and 2) the seas are supposed to be too dangerous. This aspect of the scenario is really not working as intended yet, but hopefully it won't ruin the playtesting. Of course, ideas on this are welcome!

	20-08-2003 03:22									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Elok I guess I should download the program that converts MGE scens one of these days. I have no idea where to find it though.

Look at Mercator's utility site (link from Great Library): the author of the converter is Angelo Scotto.