09-08-2003 12:54									#1
	looking for comments about mooded unit stats Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ok i've been editing the units stats and i'd like to get some feedback on them...there are also a few things you need to take into account, i dropped the defensive terrain bonus on everything except forrest, jungle, hills, and mountains, i also increased the fortifed bonus from 25% to 50% decreased the cities per army to 2, and changed the intercept rates to 75% for normal aircraft and 4% for stealth aircraft

so with that in mind what do you think of the modded unit stats?

Changes to Units

Non-combat Units
Settler 0.0.1 50/3 (wheeled) {Colonist}
*Colonist 0.0.2 50/3 Navigation
Worker 0.0.1 10/1 {Engineer}
*Engineer 0.0.1 10/1 (all terrain as roads) Steam Power
Scout 0.0.2 10 (invisible, hidden nationality, free upkeep) {Conquistador}
Explorer 0.0.2 20 (invisible, hidden nationality, free upkeep) Astronomy
**Conquistador 4.2.2 40 (invisible, all terrain as roads, zoc) horses Astronomy {Explorer}
**Army 0.0.2|3 150 (blitz, zoc, pillage +9 hp)

Ancient Land Units
Warrior 2.1.1 20 {Legion}
Jaguar Warrior 2.1.2 20 (imc: forest, jungle) {Warrior}
Archer 3.1.1 20 {Bezerk}
Bowman 3.2.1 20 {Archer}
Swordsman 4.2.1 30 iron {Medieval Infantry}
Gallic Swordsman 5.2.2 40 iron {Swordsman}
Immortal 4.2.1 20 (-1 hp) iron {Gallic Swordsman}
Legion 4.2.1 30 (+3 hp) iron {Immortal}
Spearman 2.2.1 20 {Pikeman}
Hoplite 2.3.1 20 {Spearman}
Impi 2.2.2 20 {Hoplite}
Numideon Mercenary 3.4.1 30 (free upkeep) {Impi}
Chariot 3.1.2 30 (wheeled, zoc) horses {Mounted Warrior}
War Chariot 5.1.2 30 (wheeled, zoc) horses {Chariot}
Horseman 4.1.2 40 (zoc) horses {War Elephant}
Mounted Warrior 6.1.2 40 (zoc) horses {Horseman}

Middle Age Land Units
Longbowman 7.2.1 40 {Rifleman}
Bezerk 10.3.1 60 (Amphibious, +1 hp) {Longbowman}
Medieval Infantry 8.5.1 50 iron {Rifleman}
Pikeman 5.5.1 30/1 {Musketeer}
Musketman 11.11.1 60/1 saltpeter {Rifleman}
Musketeer 13.13.1 60/1 (+1 hp) saltpeter {Musketman}
Knight 8.4.2 60 (zoc) iron, horses {Siphai}
Ansar Warrior 10.4.2 60 (blitz, +1 hp, zoc) iron, horses {Knight}
Keshik 9.2.2 50 (imc: mountains, hills, zoc) horses {Ansar Warrior}
Rider 8.4.3 60 (zoc) iron, horses {Keshik}
Samurai 8.6.2 60 (zoc) iron {Rider}
War Elephant 14.10.1 80 (zoc) {Samurai}
Cavalry 14.6.3 80 (zoc) horses, saltpeter {Panzer}
Cossack 14.9.3 80 (zoc) horses, saltpeter {Cavalry}
Siphai 18.6.3 80 (+1 hp, zoc) horses, saltpeter {Cossack}

Industrial Era Land Units
Guerrilla 2.1.3 12/1/4 10/2 (invisible, hidden nationality, lethal land bombardment, -4 hp, free upkeep, imc:all) Communism
Marine 30.15.2 120/1 (amphibious, zoc) rubber
Paratrooper 25.20.2 120/1 (10 air drop range, zoc) rubber
Rifleman 15.15.2 80/1 {Infantry}
Infantry 20.20.2 100/1 rubber
Tank 38.18.3 140/1 (wheeled, blitz, zoc, cannot airlift) iron, oil {Modern Armor}
Panzer 38.18.4 140/1 (wheeled, blitz, zoc, cannot airlift, +1 hp, imc:forest) iron, oil {Tank}

Modern Land Units
*Special Forces 40.20.4 150 (amphibious, invisible, see invisible, 10 air drop range, blitz, -5 hp, imc:all) Computers
Mech Infantry 30.40.4 140/1 (wheeled, blitz, zoc, cannot airlift) iron, oil, rubber
Modern Armor 60.20.4 160/1 (wheeled, blitz, zoc, cannot airlift) iron, oil, aluminum

Seige
Catapult 0.1.1 8/1/4 40 (wheeled) iron {Cannon}
Cannon 0.1.1 18/1/6 80 (wheeled) iron, saltpeter {Artillary}
Artillary 0.1.2 25/2/8 120 (helicopter transportable) iron
Radar Artillary 0.1.3 30/2/6 160 (wheeled, blitz, cannot airlift) aluminum, oil

Missile
Cruise Missile 0.0.1 60 40/5/3 (leathal land, leathal sea, can load into Aegis Cruisers and nuclear subs) aluminum
Tactical Nuke 0.0.1 180 10 aluminum, uranium
ICBM 0.0.1 250 aluminum, uranium

Ancient Naval Units
Galley 2.2.4 30|2 (sink in sea, sink in ocean) {Sloop}

Middle Age Naval Units
*Sloop 5.3.5 50 (sink in ocean, imc: sea) {Man-o-War} Astronomy
Caravel 2.3.4 60|3 (-2 hp, imc: sea, ocean) {Galleon}
Galleon 2.3.5 80|4 (-2 hp, imc: sea, ocean) {Transport}
Frigate 12.9.2 12/1/1 100 (all terrain as roads, blitz) {Ironclad}
Man-o-War 16.12.2 12/1/1 100 (all terrain as roads, blitz)
Privateer 8.2.7 40 (hidden nationality, imc: sea, ocean) Navigation

Industrial Era Naval Units
Ironclad 20.16.3 20/1/1 120 (all terrain as roads, blitz) iron, coal Steel {Battleship}
Transport 2.5.8 100 (-2 hp, imc: sea, ocean) oil
Battleship 48.38.3 30/2/3 240 (all terrain as roads, blitz) iron, coal, oil
Destroyer 16.26.4 16/1/1 120 (all terrain as roads, blitz) oil {Aegis Cruiser}
Submarine 16.6.3 120 (all terrain as roads, blitz, invisible, detect invisible)
Aircraft Carrier 2.8.3 200|5 (all terrain as roads, blitz, radar) iron, rubber Advanced Flight

Modern Naval Units
Nuclear Sub 16.20.3 180|3 (all terrain as roads, blitz, invisible, detect invisible)
Aegis Cruiser 25.35.4 25/1/1 160|2 (all terrain as roads, blitz, radar, detect invisible, *transport cruise missiles) aluminum, oil

Industrial Era Air Units
Fighter 5.5.2 25/6/2 120 (blitz, lethal sea bombard) oil {F-15}
Bomber 0.2.1 20/12/8 150 (*foot soldier) oil, rubber {Jet Bomber}
Helicopter 0.2.3 0/0/6 100 oil, rubber

Modern Air Units
Jet Fighter 20.20.3 35/8/3 180 (blitz, radar, lethal sea bombard) aluminum, oil
F-15 30.30.3 35/8/3 180 (blitz, radar, lethal sea bombard, precision strike) aluminum, oil {Jet Fighter}
*Jet Bomber 0.6.2 30/16/8 220 (blitz, radar, *foot soldier) aluminum, oil Rocketry
Stealth Fighter 0.0.2 32/14/6 200 (blitz, stealth, radar, precision strike, *foot soldier) aluminum, oil, uranium
Stealth Bomber 0.0.1 80/120/10 450 (blitz, stealth, radar, precision strike, *foot soldier) aluminum, oil, uranium

	10-08-2003 02:10									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

horseman/chariots are FAR to strong. and mounted warriors would simply own.
most of the unit stats seem to work, but i would have to play it to know for sure...
i am not entirely sure what some of your numbers mean. (for the guerilla particularly)

i like many of your changes, but the engineer needs to go. they would allow you to rebuild roads the turn dirrectly after they are destroyed. this eliminates much of the strategy of bombardment...
for the most part, i love you changes to naval warfare, but ironclads should NOT be as strong as destroyers!
also, i don't think destroyers should be upgradeable to aegis cruisers. however, you could add Heavy cruiser as a naval unit, and make that upgradeable to aegis.

one last thing. do you know if it's possible to make a specific unit have a HIGHER upkeep (knights), this would be realistic and imrove ballance.

	10-08-2003 04:52									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

zorbop,

as far as horsemen and chariots go, you are taking into account the fact that fortified units get +50% instead of +25%

so a fortified spearman in a city (or a town with walls) would have a 4 defensive strength and only cost half as much a horseman

still tho you may be right

as for my unit notation it goes like this

a.d.m bmb str/bmb rng/RoF cost shld/cost pop special abilities, required technology, unit it upgrades to, resources

so for the guerilla

it has two attack, one defense, three movement twelve bombard strength, one bombard range, 4 rate of fire, it cost ten shields and two population it has those listed specials, it comes with communism, and does't require any resources to build

i'll take that into account for the engineer

iron clads aren't nearly as strong as destroyers...they cannot attack a destroyer very successfully (20 vs. 26) and on defense they don't have an advantage (16 vs. 16)

to me ironclads go from fleets/flotillas of ironclads from the US civil war up to HMS dreadnaught, and then battleships go from there...i moved ironclads back so there is a shorter gap between ironclads and destroyers, and they cost the same

as for destroyers upgrading to Aegis Cruisers, they both fill the same role imo, and there isn't any reason to have both units be in the build queue

i don't think you can make units cost more upkeep, but if you could I'd love it and agree that it could help out quite a bit in balancing units

thanks for the feedback!