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Gatekeeper
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United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:30
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Everyone:
I found this story while perusing the raw news wires at work earlier tonight. Per my occasional custom, it's posted below for your reading pleasure. After you're finished reading, feel free to contribute to this thread as you see fit.
quote:
North Korea threat makes Japanese think the unthinkable: Going nuclear
By YURI KAGEYAMA
Associated Press Writer
TOKYO (AP) — Just a few years ago, talk about possessing nuclear weapons would have been the pinnacle of taboo in Japan, the only nation to suffer atomic attacks.
But the nuclear ambitions of neighboring North Korea now have this nation thinking the unthinkable, even as it marks the anniversaries this week of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings — should Japan have its own atomic arsenal?
‘‘People are clearly waking up to the idea,’’ lawmaker Shingo Nishimura says of the new willingness to debate the issue. ‘‘They feel something is wrong with Japan.’’
Nishimura was forced to resign as a vice minister for defense back in 1999 just for suggesting Japan should consider going nuclear.
Now he’s a popular opposition lawmaker who gets to air his nuclear views on prime-time TV talk shows.
Yasuo Fukuda and Shintaro Abe, two prominent ruling party politicians and top advisers to the prime minister, are among other leaders who have broached the once-shunned issue within the last year, asserting that Japan has the right to bear nuclear arms.
‘‘Japan must start saying right now that it might go nuclear,’’ said Tadae Takubo, professor of policy at Kyorin University. ‘‘For a nation to entirely forsake nuclear weapons is like taking part in a boxing match and promising not to throw hooks.’’
No polls have been done that weigh public attitudes to going nuclear. But any such move would likely meet powerful resistance. Along with a strong anti-nuclear bloc in the ruling party, all major opposition parties are against it.
The raging firestorms, charred bodies and bulbous tumors are etched into the collective consciousness of generations. Japan’s post-World War II constitution renounces war.
Just this Wednesday, marking the Aug. 6 anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima, Mayor Tadatoshi Akiba reminded a crowd of the ‘‘blazing hell fire’’ that left 140,000 people dead or dying, and called all nuclear weapons ‘‘utterly evil, inhumane and illegal under international law.’’
At the same commemoration, Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi affirmed Japan’s policy banning the production, possession and transport of nuclear weapons.
‘‘Our country’s stance on this will not change,’’ Koizumi said. ‘‘We will do our utmost to advance the call for smaller nuclear arsenals and nuclear nonproliferation while working toward ridding the world of nuclear weapons.’’
North Korean ambitions
All that could change, however, if North Korea ups its atomic ante.
Vice President **** Cheney speculated in March that Pyongyang’s ambitions could trigger a regional ‘‘arms race’’ and that ‘‘others, perhaps Japan, for example, may be forced to consider whether or not they want to readdress the nuclear question.’’
While a nuclear-armed Japan might deter a possible North Korean attack, it would likely worry China and could change the U.S.-Japan alliance, which for decades has centered on Japan’s reliance on the U.S. nuclear umbrella.
This month, The Shokun, a major right-leaning magazine, gathered essays from more than 40 prominent writers to debate the issue.
Even journalists with dovish reputations said the option was a valid card to play for political leverage, not only against North Korea but the United States and other nations. Some questioned whether Japan was ready for the responsibility; others preferred Japan to get a missile defense system.
Almost all were united in saying there is no harm in discussing a nuclear Japan.
‘‘If people had voiced such opinions a few years ago, they would have been branded weirdoes,’’ said Hideo Hosoi, editor in chief of The Shokun. ‘‘We’re starting to be able to talk about it in a rational and normal way.’’
Still, Japan’s postwar pacifist roots are well ingrained, and some even see its lack of nuclear weapons as its best defense.
‘‘All we can do is pray there’ll be no nuclear attack,’’ says Hiroyuki Ito, a cab driver. ‘‘But would anyone shoot an unarmed man?’’ |
The part that piqued my interest was this: "Even journalists with dovish reputations said the option was a valid card to play for political leverage, not only against North Korea but the United States and other nations. ..."
If this attitude becomes ingrained, Japan would be wise to avoid any nuclear ambitions, no matter what North Korea does. Heh. Like that guy said at the end of the story, who would "shoot an unarmed man?" But if Japan gets nukes and couples the capability with the idea of political leverage over other nations ... well, Japan might find out that such leverage isn't always what it's cracked up to be. Nah. Better to be protected by America's nuclear umbrella — perhaps even its anti-missile system, whenever that gets up to snuff — than to go ahead with a nuclear weapons program.
I mean, c'mon, what are the odds someone's gonna pull a Poland on Japan? 
Gatekeeper
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Rufus T. Firefly
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is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
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Time to resurrect this Tom Lehrer ditty from 1965...
quote:
Who's Next
First we got the bomb and that was good,
'Cause we love peace and motherhood.
Then Russia got the bomb, but that's O.K.,
'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way!
Who's next?
France got the bomb, but don't you grieve,
'Cause they're on our side (I believe).
China got the bomb, but have no fears;
They can't wipe us out for at least five years!
Who's next?
Then Indonesia claimed that they
Were gonna get one any day.
South Africa wants two, that's right:
One for the black and one for the white!
Who's next?
Egypt's gonna get one, too,
Just to use on you know who.
So Israel's getting tense,
Wants one in self defense.
"The Lord's our shepherd," says the psalm,
But just in case, we better get a bomb!
Who's next?
Luxembourg is next to go
And, who knows, maybe Monaco.
We'll try to stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the bomb!
Who's next, who's next, who's next?
Who's next? |
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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:30
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Well as the only victim ever of nuclear attack perhaps japan has earned the dubious right to possess these weapons more so than other nations.
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Gatekeeper
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United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
give everybody nukes. and when they get hit by one, let them retaliate.
there's no need for humans to be on this stinking hellhole anyway. |
I take it you're a wee bit depressed right now about the state of human affairs, hmm? Been there, done that, likely will be there again in the future.  But I've learned that a good way to rebalance oneself is to — for me, anyway — listen to music, stare into a gorgeous night sky, read a good book, and look into the eyes of pure innocence: those of a newborn, whose life is only just beginning, and whose possibilities are unlimited ...
Gatekeeper
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:30
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quote:
I take it you're a wee bit depressed right now about the state of human affairs, hmm? Been there, done that, likely will be there again in the future. |
not general human affairs. just human affairs re: ne asia, because discussion is dominated by idiots who have no idea about what that entire region's like, politically or socially, as well as the fact that the entire region was quite well ****ed over/raped by the west in their crazed drive towards modernization, trampling over everything that stood in the way of progress, leading to the occupation of the peninsula and its subsequent division, to the creation of a communist china and other such things.
jesus, i sound like a donghak revolutionary there. 
in any case, the "feminine" east has been ruined by the "masculine" west, and we need to fix it, but it's now so twisted that it's a ****ing gordian knot.
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ajbera
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of the Cookieville Minimum Security Orphanarium
Apr 1999
time: 05:30
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Y'know, it'd be cool if someone made a movie where Kim Jong throws one of his periodic hissy fits and threatens Japan with nukes, and then Godzilla/Gojiro wakes up and stomps the shit outta Pyongang, and then NK shoots some nukes at Godzilla, so the lil' Japanese twins sing their Mothra song, and Mothra shows up to help out the Big G, and some other monsters show up too, and there's a great big ass-whompin', then SK invades and the sensible members of the NK population overthrow their overlords, and the NK pop goes south to be reunited with their SK brethren, and a chunk of NK breaks off (monster fights are kinda rough) and becomes the new Monster Island.
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Gatekeeper
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United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
quote:
I take it you're a wee bit depressed right now about the state of human affairs, hmm? Been there, done that, likely will be there again in the future. |
not general human affairs. just human affairs re: ne asia, because discussion is dominated by idiots who have no idea about what that entire region's like, politically or socially, as well as the fact that the entire region was quite well ****ed over/raped by the west in their crazed drive towards modernization, trampling over everything that stood in the way of progress, leading to the occupation of the peninsula and its subsequent division, to the creation of a communist china and other such things.
jesus, i sound like a donghak revolutionary there.
in any case, the "feminine" east has been ruined by the "masculine" west, and we need to fix it, but it's now so twisted that it's a ****ing gordian knot. |
It's good to vent, Q, it really is. **tiptoes unobtrusively away**
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Proteus_MST
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
I personally think that every nation should abide by the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. The UN should declare any nation that is violates or withdraws from the Treaty to be an outlaw nation subject to embargoes and sanctions until it gets rid of its nuclear weapons.
The one exception to this general rule should be India, who should be permitted to join the treaty as a nuclear power. India was never part of either the Soviet or US Blocs in the Cold War, and needs nuclear weapons to offset the power of the Chinese.
I am also the opinion that the United States should enter into a formal treaty with Israel guaranteeing its existence, but in exchange we should demand that Israel give up its nuclear weapons.
We should also give Pakistan some guarantees against India if Pakistan restores democracy and ends terrorist activity in India.
Finally, I think the nuclear powers should annually meet in an effort to reduce their own stockpiles of nuclear weapons to zero as soon as possible.. |
Sounds like a good Idea.
With two Exceptions:
1. The question about the nuclear Weapons in Israel seems to be a complex one. I don´t know if a Guarantee of Existence might be enough to let the Israelis abandon their Nuclear Weapons.
It might be fine if rthey do, but aftr all I think it gives the Israelis a further feeling of Security, to be safe from an arabian Invasion.
Teh big Problem of course is, that the Arabian Countries on the other Hand could feel Threatened by Israel with nuclear Weapons. Hard to find a Solution.
2. All existing nuclear Powers should also sign a treaty, not to develop any further Nuclear Weapons, neither strategical nor tactical ones.
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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Everyone:
I found this story while perusing the raw news wires at work earlier tonight. Per my occasional custom, it's posted below for your reading pleasure. After you're finished reading, feel free to contribute to this thread as you see fit.
The part that piqued my interest was this: "Even journalists with dovish reputations said the option was a valid card to play for political leverage, not only against North Korea but the United States and other nations. ..."
If this attitude becomes ingrained, Japan would be wise to avoid any nuclear ambitions, no matter what North Korea does. Heh. Like that guy said at the end of the story, who would "shoot an unarmed man?" But if Japan gets nukes and couples the capability with the idea of political leverage over other nations ... well, Japan might find out that such leverage isn't always what it's cracked up to be. Nah. Better to be protected by America's nuclear umbrella — perhaps even its anti-missile system, whenever that gets up to snuff — than to go ahead with a nuclear weapons program.
I mean, c'mon, what are the odds someone's gonna pull a Poland on Japan?
Gatekeeper |
the only nation to ever drop a nuclear weapon "shot an unarmed man." I think that answers your question.
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09-08-2003 13:02
Smiley 
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