09-08-2003 14:17									#1
	Turn 103, 510BC Support Apolyton

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- In Anarchy (3 turns to go according to DomAdvisor)
- Researching Engineering (39) 1 scientist.
- 47 gold. +1 gpt, 1 taxman
- Luxury Slider at 0%
- Science will be set to 0 when we come out of anarchy, to enable us to upgrade swords and warriors.

Urgent questions & tasks
What the heck is CDG doing? FAM?

Unit movement & actions
To be added by MoW

Science:
Once out of Anarchy, start on Engineering

Economy
To be added by MoI

WF:
Should be the same this turn, except for poly, it will need a specialist (Taxman).

Workers:
MrWIA - Mine Ming 7 (WF #7)
Rush - Mine Poly 7 (WF #7)
Yo - Road Alcohol 2 (WF #5)
Squid & Horse - Clear Banana 6 (WF #3)
Mark & Otto - Clear Lux 3 (WF #4)



Diplomacy:
CDG: NAP/Border treaty (to turn 109).
GCA: NAP in effect (to Turn 130).
CFC: NAP expired. New NAP proposed by CFC thru turn 117


Comment, please, many "plans" are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except in WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 11-08-2003 at 23:01

	09-08-2003 14:22									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Important note for future consideration:

It's been somewhat unofficially decided that we should research our next tech (Engineering) at the slowest possible pace (40 turns). To do this we can do one of two things:

Use ONE scientist in ONE city.

OR

10% science for all cities.

At the moment, the 10% science would cost us about 10 GPT for the same cost 1 scientist could provide. On the other hand, a scientist in a city will basically end any possibility of growth in that city for the next 40 turns.

So let the scheming begin.

	09-08-2003 15:15									#3
	Tired of ads?

One scientist in Mingapulco.

	09-08-2003 15:24									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

one scientist in Fortress of the Possums, once we have it. In the mean time, somewhere else. I'm not sure we're going to get it soon, though, it has been quite confusing to follow what's going on

DeepO

	09-08-2003 23:55									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

So we had only three turns of Anarchy? And it really depends on what to do for the science. If we are going to put a scientist in a city that is going to contribute alot of units for the GCA war then put +10 on the science tax. If the city will be a city that wont be used in to war or the shield output is very low then might as well put a scientist in.

	12-08-2003 07:51									#6
	Suffering from ads?

Note that GCA has upgraded to v1.27f for the turn coming to us, so we need to do the same before playing.

	12-08-2003 09:28									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Trip Important note for future consideration: It's been somewhat unofficially decided that we should research our next tech (Engineering) at the slowest possible pace (40 turns).

Erm... why exactly was this decided? Was this intended to be done solely during our anarchy period, or even afterwards into Republic? This sounds like an excellent plan for falling behind in tech and not getting Leonardo's Workshop.... we should rely on our GA production to get us ahead in the war and only minimally on money usage... otherwise we're just asking to become the primitive kings of a backward continent.

	12-08-2003 09:33									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well we'll be able to see what our research capabilities are like once we hit Republic, but I don't think putting the money into research will benefit us that much in our GA. We have been given a head start (well, will get one shortly, hopefully!), and we must make good use of the gold we get, whichever way it is.

	12-08-2003 09:53									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon Erm... why exactly was this decided? Was this intended to be done solely during our anarchy period, or even afterwards into Republic? This sounds like an excellent plan for falling behind in tech and not getting Leonardo's Workshop.... we should rely on our GA production to get us ahead in the war and only minimally on money usage... otherwise we're just asking to become the primitive kings of a backward continent.

How do you propose to get ahead in tech when part of a war ravaged continent without capable trading partners?

	12-08-2003 09:58									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This is an important time for research, but we do need the Gold if we are ever to go on the offensive. So 40-turn research sounds okay. We might even consider doing no research at all.

The 1 Scientist idea is preferable. We can sacrifice the growth in some far-flung usless city. We should definitely not take a Citizen/Laborer off a productive tile (i.e. one that is contributing to the empire after Corruption).


Dominae

	12-08-2003 11:23									#11
	Tired of ads?

I nominate the last CDG city to be dedicated to these intellectual pursuits (the scientist). It would be sweetly ironic to have some well-thought ideas come out of there.

	12-08-2003 12:14									#12
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I nominate the last CDG city to be dedicated to these intellectual pursuits (the scientist). It would be sweetly ironic to have some well-thought ideas come out of there.

That's the best way to put that idea I've heard yet

	12-08-2003 12:20									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

If GF does not come through with gifting us Feudalism this turn I am in favor of just taking him out now and putting GF on Apolyton's all-time "poop list" This list of people contains those that can never be trusted at their word. GF promised, as a person, not as a team, that he would gift us Feudalism and play the role of fully supporting Apolyton and no other team. If he pulls something now, it shows he can never be trusted in any type of game.

I'm willing to let bygones be bygones if GF does gift us Feudalism...if not, I will never forgive him and will hound him forever about his lying ways.

	12-08-2003 14:10									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

...once we have found out, of course, that it was indeed GF who was responsible for playing the save during this time. Earlier we thought it was just him, yet it was another who actually played the save. Not all the rats have left the sinking ship yet, and whatever you think of GF there should be no "blackballing" of anyone without any checking done to see if they were indeed the one who deserves it.

	12-08-2003 18:05									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by BigFree If GF does not come through with gifting us Feudalism this turn I am in favor of just taking him out now and putting GF on Apolyton's all-time "poop list" This list of people contains those that can never be trusted at their word. GF promised, as a person, not as a team, that he would gift us Feudalism and play the role of fully supporting Apolyton and no other team. If he pulls something now, it shows he can never be trusted in any type of game. I'm willing to let bygones be bygones if GF does gift us Feudalism...if not, I will never forgive him and will hound him forever about his lying ways.

Uh, HELLO, this is just a game....

Lifelong grudges should be founded over something a wee bit more substantial than "I screwed you over in a game once."

	12-08-2003 22:01									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If it was just this one time where his honor was in question I would agree. However, there have been other occasions, that I'm aware of, that GF has proved to me that he is not so honorable and trusting him is no longer an option for me.

Yes, this is a game. The game itself is not important compared to RL or many other things. But how a person plays a game and interacts with others is important. It shows a persons character. It's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game.

He came to us as an individual promising to do certain deeds. It's one thing to forget or screw something up; but quite another to completely disregard a promise and act contrary to his stated intentions on that level. GF told us that it was him alone that was responsible for CDG's actions. Was that a lie?

Others can choose to feel however they wish, I'm simply letting my feelings on the matter be known to others.

	12-08-2003 22:31									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

If we are going to research Engineering at a 40-turn pace, make sure you assign a scientist this turn. Scientists work even in Anarchy.

	13-08-2003 00:13									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Already done, alexman. We have a scientist in Bananatopia (or is it Mingapulco?).

	13-08-2003 00:17									#19
	Got spare money?

Are we trying to limit the growth of either Bananatopia or Mingapulco?

If not, there is simply no reason to remove a perfectly good Laborer from one of our core cities in order to make a Scientist. Ideally the Laborer we remove would only be contributing to Corruption, and I doubt this is the case for our two best cities apart from Apolyton.


Dominae

	13-08-2003 02:59									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

We are trying to keep them out of disorder while in anarchy.

	13-08-2003 04:52									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Which goes to show how closely I've been following the game...(when did we get The Republic!?).

Doh!


Dominae

	13-08-2003 05:06									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Finished Republic and went into anarchy last turn. 3 more turns of anarchy.

That's the good news. The bad news is that we have so many units and so many small cities that we'll have a lot less cash per turn than while under Despotism.

	13-08-2003 08:51									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Diplomacy: - Done at the end of the turn
We have Feudalism at the beginning of the turn

Offer Feudalism to CFC, accepted


Unit Movements and Actions:
N04 'Togas' moves 2
N01 'MerZenary' moves 7

W05 'BFW' moves 2
W03 'Alva' moves 6

N05 'Enamel' moves 2

W12 'Warrior With No Name' skips turn
W02 'BigFree' moves 2

S04 'Arnelos' moves 6 and fortifies
S11 'PanzerSwordsman' moves 6 and fortifies

H03 'vonHorseman' moves 6 and fortifies

AGA moves 2 1 and fortifies

S05 'Hack' moves 4

G01 'AS Princess of Apolyton' [S02] moves 3 6 3. Fortify all
G02 'AS Expedition' [S01] moves 6 8 9. Fortify all

W07 'WhiteBandit' moves 4 to occupy Fortress of the Possums. 36 gold pillaged. Nubian warrior at 4 4


Economy: - all builds are suspended as we are in anarchy. All three sword cities switched to mi on their own
Apolyton changed to merc (4)
Mingapulco changed to merc (5)
Banantopia building temple (1)
Incensity changed to merc (2)
Tripoli building barracks (4)
Fortress of the Possums building walls (a long time)
Cuido de Alcohol building walls (11)
Hispanica building temple (16)
Possumopolis building walls (11)
Karina building worker (3)
LuxInvicta building worker (3)
Big Bend building worker (6)
BigFurryCity building to temple (12)
Heart of Darkness set to worker (1)

Work Force:
Apolyton change to 4-12-13-17-tax collector
Mingapulco NC
Banantopia NC
Incensity NC
Tripoli change NC
Fortress of the Possums set to 2
Cuido de Alcohol NC
Hispanica NC
Possumopolis NC
Karina NC
LuxInvicta NC
Big Bend NC
BigFurryCity NC
Heart of Darkness NC

Workers:
Worker01: 'Dan' clearing (4) Big Bend 7
Worker02: 'Monkee' clearing (8) Big bend 8
Worker03: 'panag' chopping (9) Hisp 4
Worker04: 'EVC' clearing (4) HoD 6
Worker05: 'Dejon' clearing (4) HoD 6
Worker06: 'MrWIA'mining (12) Mingapulco 7
Worker07: 'Rush' mining (12) Apolyton 7
Worker08: 'Yo' roading (9) Cuido de Alocohol 2
Worker09: 'Calc II' clearing (8) Big bend 8
Worker10: 'Spink' chopping (4) Hispanica 9
Worker11: 'Horse' clearing (12) Bananatopia 3
Worker12: 'Squid' clearing (12) Bananatopia 3
Worker13: 'Otto' clearing (12) Lux 3
Worker14: 'Mark' clearing (12) Lux 3
Worker15: 'Gits' clearing (4) Big Bend 7
Worker16s: named 'Farb' moves 6

	13-08-2003 08:59									#24
	Shots Suffering from ads?

and an extra treat this turn

	13-08-2003 09:19									#25
	Get a bigger avatar today!

#1 and #2 GNPs are now far above us again. Both of them are now 85+ and out of recording range. However, that will soon change in 2 turns...

Still no one in anarchy, so excepting GWT we are the only possible Republic right now.

There is another civ very close to our Military Service but slightly below. Could it possibly be GCA?

	13-08-2003 09:39									#26
	Turn 103 Powergraph Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Notice our rise, and Grenouille's fall (or flattening out). Firaxis' score is no longer rising as quickly, and CGN and GWT are still growing like there's no tomorrow without any signs of slowing down.

	13-08-2003 12:06									#27
	Re: Turn 103 Powergraph Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Trip Notice our rise, and Grenouille's fall (or flattening out). Firaxis' score is no longer rising as quickly, and CGN and GWT are still growing like there's no tomorrow without any signs of slowing down.

Yes, the Score does tell a story. When I compare the turn by turn increase in score from Turn 90 to 103, this is what i found :

How to read - from Turn 90 to 91, Poly score increase by +2. From 91 to 92, +2 again. Total increase from 90 to 103 is +35.

POLY : 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 2, 3, 3 (Total +35)
We start growing our score by +3 from Turn 94 onwards.

GCA : 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 2, 3, 3, 2, 3, 3, 3 (Total +34)
GCA also pick up pace on Turn 94, and grows at almost the same rate as Poly.

CFC : 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 (Total +22)
CFC score has become steady, growing by +2 since Turn 99

CDG : 0, 1, 1, -2, -1, -1, -1, -2, -1, -1, -1, -1, -144
The decline starts from Turn 94. CDG lost their capital on Turn 93, gave us their 2 cities on Turn 93 too.

Firaxis : 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 3, 4, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 (Total +35)
Firaxis has been growing at +3 for quite a while. The growth drop to +2 from Turn 98. Something must have happen ! Use your imagination.

Grenouilles : 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1 (Total +15)
The French growth has slowed down since Turn 95, from growing between +1 and +2 to between +0 and +1

Netatolians : 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 5, 5, (Total +62)
Undisputed leader. Score is now 327. Growth has increased from +4 to +5.

Weblings : 3, 3, 4, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 4, 4, 5 (Total +51)
Growth increased from +3 to between +4 and +5.

Also, faster increase in score by Net & Web coincide with slower increase in score by Gren and Firaxis. Could be two on two in the other contigent.

	13-08-2003 12:20									#28
	Put an end to popups!

Do we know how the Top-5 City list is composed? It might tell us something about the contents of the city of Algalord.

Do the other teams get a message about CDG having been destroyed?

We moved from #2 to #3 in Literacy - one team has built a library.

	13-08-2003 12:58									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

darn it... I've been working on exactly what rush has posted for the better part of the evening around phone calls from friends about dating situations (what is it with tonight and people calling me about people they're dating, anyways?)

Oh well, nice work, rush

I've noticed exactly the same trend. I don't even doubt that GWT and CGN must be at war with Firaxis and Grenoule and it's pretty apparent who's winning.

That said, I will apparently continue to repeat the following phrase in various settings on Apolyton until I'm blue in the face:

No Alliance Survives Victory

If Grenoule and Firaxis really get wiped out and the other continent only have each other for company, it may only be a matter of time until they squable over land, resources, and tech....

Which raises an interesting question... is it better that we have contact before or after "victory" by what we assume to be (but very well may not be) GWT and CGN alliance? Just thinking (off the top of my head) that this is another devil's advocate thing to bring up in the suicide galley thread

Last edited by Arnelos on 13-08-2003 at 13:17

	13-08-2003 13:10									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos If GWT and Firaxis really get wiped out

Grenouille and Firaxis, more likely.

We should be very careful in making contact with those giants. A danger would be an invasion by one of them. We then should try to manipulate the other to our advantage.